Oil and wax for hand tools?

[Phil Pascoe]

I don't know that I would go to the expense of microcrystalline if using a mix like that, I can't really see the benefit. Every year or so when I know I'm not going to need anything I throw all my plane handles and mallets in a bucket of linseed (I don't even look to see which, rlo or blo, I've both), weight them down and leave them for a few days. There's much debate as to what best to do with them but I've always thought any more than that unnecessary.

 

[sploo]

Just got some a small takeaway food type container of microcrystaline wax from ebay, when I contacted the seller (a blacksmith) he recommended mixing 100g wax to 500ml white spirit to 100ml raw linseed oil. Heat to 100c then hand held blender on it. I like my necessaries staying where I was born with them so I won't be using the Mrs's blender on the mix. Can anyone advise on the mix ratios though. Sound sensible? I've got various pots ands bottles of BLO, turps, DO etc. Be interested to see if anyone has different mixes etc. I've never used it before. Can it just be warmed up and used on its own? It's for plane handles that I've stripped the varnish from and they've been stained 50/50 with mahogany and dark oak. A mix I stole from one of Alf's posts.
Cheers!
Chris

Can't comment on the mix, as the closest thing I've done (to that sort of mix) is blend mineral oil with beeswax. I may be teaching you to suck eggs - but be rather careful how you heat that mix to 100C; the word "flammability" comes to mind.

Personally I'd shellac and wax if they've already been stained. A couple of coats of thin shellac followed by the microcrystaline and they'll come up looking really nice.

 

[Jacob]

Don't forget eye of newt, and do it under a waning moon.

 

[Bm101]

Expense wise, I didnt think it was too bad tbh, fiver for a big lump. Was thinking I would only need a little chunk, maybe 50 pence worth. Might be a quid in total. It's the first time Ive used wax so I was after seeing the results really.
And yeh, the word 'flammable' came to my mind too. Being a blacksmith I'm guessing he's a pyro anyway. Think i'll melt a bit to see.
I don't doubt there's easier options. I've got some in the shed. Sometimes it's just nice to try something out.
Jacob if you buy a new TV do you ask if its got a black and white option. Colour is an unnecessary luxury. You can see the pictures in black and white after all and that's what we always did before fancypants types started watching colour tv. Show offs the lot of em.

 

[Vann]

...why not chuck in Eye of newt, and toe of frog, Wool of bat, and tongue of dog, Adder's fork, and blind-worm's sting, Lizard's leg, and howlet's wing...

You been messing in Snape's store cupboard again Jacob? :wink:

Cheers, Vann.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

The blacksmiths I know use beeswax - in blocks. I would have thought microcrystalline far too soft to come in a block - at least, Chestnut is.

 

[Bm101]

The blacksmiths I know use beeswax - in blocks. I would have thought microcrystalline far too soft to come in a block - at least, Chestnut is.

Hmmm
Maybe I've been sold a ringer. :shock:
This stuff is hard, it snaps and is quite brittle. Too hard to scratch with a fingernail.

It's probably melted down icreamboxes.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Maybe not. Maybe that's its sort of natural state (I have absolutely no idea how microcrystalline wax is made, or what it's made from) before it's softened with a solvent of some description. Beeswax in its natural state is quite soft. Texture wise that's more like carnauba, but carnauba's brownish. I think I'd try melting some with some pure turps and see how it turned out.

 

[D_W]

Looks a lot like paraffin or canning wax.

 

[ED65]

100g wax to 500ml white spirit to 100ml raw linseed oil. Heat to 100c then hand held blender on it. ... Can anyone advise on the mix ratios though. Sound sensible?

That sounds fine but TBH it doesn't matter much. The ones I've made were equal amounts (equal volumes) of wax, white spirit and oil but there's so little on the wood once you've wiped down and buffed that quite big differences in proportions have little to no obvious effect on the finish.

The amount of spirits/turps is a big factor for the product in the container however. It is the amount of spirits, and oil, that control how soft the polish is in bulk form. But if you fix the proportions of wax to oil at the start then the amount of spirits is the only factor in how soft the finished blend is, you can add as much or as little as you prefer.

I like my necessaries staying where I was born with them so I won't be using the Mrs's blender on the mix.

Not needed anyway! You only need to stir it. You only need to blend if you're making an emulsion, and if you've got a strong arm you can do it with a whisk, same way they did it in Victorian times.

As far as heating it goes, use a double boiler or bain marie. Sounds fancy but that just means a big jar in a large saucepan of water

Since you've got turps you can use that to make the product smell nicer. You might read in older guides, or from older guys, that using turps makes a better product but it makes zero difference at the end of the day.

 

[ED65]

Maybe I've been sold a ringer. :shock:
This stuff is hard, it snaps and is quite brittle. Too hard to scratch with a fingernail.

That sounds like the stuff all right. Hardness is pretty much the way to tell it from lookalike waxes: paraffin, soya or bleached beeswax.

This is the reason it's used now so commonly in commercial wax finishes to add hardness, it being nearly as hard but much cheaper than carnauba or candelilla.

Maybe that's its sort of natural state ... before it's softened with a solvent of some description.

Yes that'll be it. The Chestnut product, like almost all commercial paste waxes, is made into an easy-to-apply consistency with the addition of spirits.

 

[swagman]

If you want to make your own traditional furniture polish using beeswax; don't mix it with ordinary white spirits; use pure gum turpentine; it doesn't evaporate as quickly; allowing greater time for the mix to remain soluble, resulting in a deeper penetration within the wood surface. Refer to msds recommendations when using pure gum turpentine.



http://cambridgetraditionalproducts.co. ... ure-polish

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Stewie - don't forget the smell. It's worth doing for the smell alone. I'm going to have a crack at that m/c wax.

 

[Bm101]

Thank you both for the replies. I'd hit on the idea of the bain marie while giving it a little ponder the other day. I wondered about putting a bit through the cheesegrater first lol. Save on the mixing. Lazy Begger.
Thanks again,
Chris

 

[ED65]

TI wondered about putting a bit through the cheesegrater first lol. Save on the mixing. Lazy Begger.

Good call Chris, takes flippin' ages to dissolve otherwise! And the less time spent around warmed solvent the better.

If the wax is too hard to grate easily you can chip off pieces from the edge with a mallet and chisel, I've heard that's quite commonly done by those who get carnauba in a big chunk instead of pearls.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Why bother with a mallet and chisel - just smash it with a hammer.

 

[ED65]

If you want to make your own traditional furniture polish using beeswax; don't mix it with ordinary white spirits; use pure gum turpentine; it doesn't evaporate as quickly; allowing greater time for the mix to remain soluble, resulting in a deeper penetration within the wood surface. Refer to msds recommendations when using pure gum turpentine.

...[/url]

http://cambridgetraditionalproducts.co. ... ure-polish

I have to say it, anything that quotes the old saw of a polish "feeding" the wood should be read with a healthy dose of scepticism. And that quote from Kramer, "Mineral spirit is a petroleum derivative and is of no benefit to, nor is it compatible with wood." really gets on my *** every time I read it. All the various versions of white spirit don't seem to have done major harm to wood as part of the zillions of cans of varnish, Danish oil, teak oil, salad-bowl finish and enamel paints used in the last century!

Also, the evaporation rate of turps (oil of turpentine, gum spirits of turpentine, distilled turpentine, pure turpentine, all the same thing) can actually be higher than that of white spirits, not lower.

As far as the practical side of things goes, I doubt the (fairly minor) difference in evaporation rate makes any difference to penetration at all. But if that was felt to be a key factor then actually the best thing to use would be low-odour or 'odourless' spirits since it has by far the slowest evaporation rate in this class of solvents.

 

[Bm101]

Me and the lad had a little go earlier. A trial run. He was making a potion apparently. Obviously mine was Scientific Research. Cut a few bits into one of the Mrs's metal bowls from the back of the cupboard. Chucked it in a saucepan of water ( 'It FLOATS Daddy!' , "Yes Son, that's Science" I said as pushed my glasses further down my nose to and peered over them for a more Scientific effect), and put on the gas. My Research and calculations were 'field standard' in this case and despite the desperate cuts in funding of recent years and my lack of proper laboratory facilities we persevered in such meagre conditions to broaden the sphere of Human Knowledge. So we added 'a bit'.

My assistant proceeded to make more astute observations while I gently reminded him not to try and blow out the flame on the gas hob. I gently chastised him for forgetting to add the Turps before we started heating the wax. He reminded me that as Head Scientist that was really my prerogative. We restarted testing after I got him to smell the turps the cheeky bugg*r. While he went to throw up for a bit and after some more field std. calculations, we chucked in 'about a capful'.

First test results seem positive if a bit haphazard. By this point I was working alone, my assistant had wandered off for spaghetti and meatballs. The Unions will close this country down.
End result, need to work on the mix but it remained fairly soft but was drying quick. Some kind pritt stick stuff might help added my assistant who was back from dinner and Andys Dinosaur Adventures. Rubbed some on a bit of off cut. Went on a little lumpy, buffed up pretty good. Amazingly well tbh considering the slapdash nature of my assistants general approach. Bit sticky but thats in the mix too.
'Look!' I said. 'Shiny!'
'Yeh...' said my assistant. 'It is a bit shiny.'
I nodded.
'Have you tried eating some? I bet it tastes like Strawberry Ice-cream.'

One tragic side effect was my Mrs's metal bowl. (Tucked neatly away at the bottom of the other bowls at the back of the cupboard), I'll stare in genuine wonder and bewilderment the next time she pulls it out. 'God love. No idea. That's very odd isn't it love? What could have caused that? Looks like some idiot's been trying Alchemy in that.'

Never show any fear.

Cheers!
Chris

 

[swagman]

If you want to make your own traditional furniture polish using beeswax; don't mix it with ordinary white spirits; use pure gum turpentine; it doesn't evaporate as quickly; allowing greater time for the mix to remain soluble, resulting in a deeper penetration within the wood surface. Refer to msds recommendations when using pure gum turpentine.

...[/url]

http://cambridgetraditionalproducts.co. ... ure-polish

I have to say it, anything that quotes the old saw of a polish "feeding" the wood should be read with a healthy dose of scepticism. And that quote from Kramer, "Mineral spirit is a petroleum derivative and is of no benefit to, nor is it compatible with wood." really gets on my *** every time I read it. All the various versions of white spirit don't seem to have done major harm to wood as part of the zillions of cans of varnish, Danish oil, teak oil, salad-bowl finish and enamel paints used in the last century!

Also, the evaporation rate of turps (oil of turpentine, gum spirits of turpentine, distilled turpentine, pure turpentine, all the same thing) can actually be higher than that of white spirits, not lower.

As far as the practical side of things goes, I doubt the (fairly minor) difference in evaporation rate makes any difference to penetration at all. But if that was felt to be a key factor then actually the best thing to use would be low-odour or 'odourless' spirits since it has by far the slowest evaporation rate in this class of solvents.

Gum Turpentine is distilled pine sap.

White Spirit, also known as Mineral Spirit, or Mineral Turpentine. It is a petroleum-based cheap replacement for Turpentine.

"Mineral turpentine is chemically very different from Turpentine... and it has inferior solvent properties". It is essentially a lighter grade of paraffin (kerosene). One of the key differences in terms of its use, is that White Spirit evaporates much more rapidly than Turpentine.

“Probably the most obvious practical difference is the evaporation time. White spirit evaporates considerably more quickly than Turpentine, and this can cause wood to dry out. As Malcom Pipes, a bespoke furniture maker we supply, says, “Pure Turps polish soaks the wood and feeds it, its a natural finish.””

http://cambridgetraditionalproducts.co. ... ure-polish

Too often these days when I mention Turpentine, someone of the younger generation will answer, "Yes, I use that, I use Mineral Spirits". These are two are totally different materials – Mineral Spirits is a petroleum derivative and is of no benefit to, nor is it compatible with wood.

Turpentine comes from trees – it is natural to wood – its benefits are many and long lasting. You will see the wood get better and better over time.

John Kramer. http://www.wkfinetools.com/trestore/fin ... improv.asp



I should point out that I am not just reliant on an internet search; the large block of bees wax I posted a photo of was uniform in thickness when I purchased it around 7yrs ago. That I do have some practical experience in making my own paste wax (bees wax + gum turpentine) as well as filler wax (bees wax + Pure Brazilian Carnauba Wax + gum turpentine + oxide powder tint) .

 

[ED65]

That I do have some practical experience in making my own paste wax (bees wax + gum turpentine)

Me too. I've used different waxes and I didn't use turpentine (not that I'm against it, love the smell) and the wood doesn't care. Wood neither notices nor cares that my wax polishes weren't made using turps, any more than they care it's not in Renaissance Wax or Mansion Wax or Briwax 8)

I don't know what the purpose of all the regurgitated quotes was but if they were as refutation the whole reason I posted was to point out that the page should be read with a wary eye. To put it plainly I'm saying it's wrong on many key facts. For anyone interested, number one is about how different white spirit and turps actually are in a product like this. This is something that anyone can confirm for themselves with about an hour of free time, a few spoonfuls of each solvent, some wax and a couple of small jars so no major commitment.

A lot of old-timers such as Kramer have what amount to romantic ideas about the differing natures of turpentine and white spirit (natural good synthetic bad :evil: ) but that's far too simplistic a notion and there's an overwhelming amount of real-world experience showing that white spirit is 'compatible' with wood despite what he believes.