Oh Dear - he's gone and trumped them all!

[RogerS]

Corbyn might get somewhere if he was more angry and bombastic instead of friendly old jam grandpa

:lol:
Well he is getting somewhere - he is the most popular leader the Labour party has had for a long time - has increased membership making Labour the biggest party in Europe and seems to be winning various elections all around the country with increased margins.
The media can't believe it so they don't believe it. Sanders' story more or less similar.

In your dreams, Jacob...in your dreams.

Just a very quick Google Labour slips to shock defeat in Sheffield Council by-election

Couldn't be bothered to look at all the rest.

 

[Jacob]

Corbyn might get somewhere if he was more angry and bombastic instead of friendly old jam grandpa

:lol:
Well he is getting somewhere - he is the most popular leader the Labour party has had for a long time - has increased membership making Labour the biggest party in Europe and seems to be winning various elections all around the country with increased margins.
The media can't believe it so they don't believe it. Sanders' story more or less similar.

In your dreams, Jacob...in your dreams.

Just a very quick Google Labour slips to shock defeat in Sheffield Council by-election

Couldn't be bothered to look at all the rest.

"The local candidate’s anti-Corbyn stance might have played a role in the defeat."
Surprise surprise!

 

[RossJarvis]

The thing with Corbyn is he's very popular with the new grass roots membership, not with Labour politicians. Looking at the recent parliamentary Tor...sorry Labour Party that's not necessarily a bad thing.

 

[YorkshireMartin]

Trumps support amongst the wealthier educated white population was much better than predicted, so it wasn't just the poor underclass that voted for him. That also could be a reflection on Clinton being somewhat of a flawed candidate though.
I also have a sneaking suspicion that we've entered another world. It's what I term the anti science. Gove's comment summed it up brilliantly, we are fed up of experts. Youtube is full of conspiracy theories, many of which are frighteningly ridiculous. There seems to be a small but unhealthy number of people who are rejecting science and reasoning, whilst sat in their warm centrally heated rooms, sat in front of their technologically advanced computers and iphones. They would rather put their faith in Trump though. Strange world.

But also don't forget that a fair chunk of wealthy and educated are just going to vote republican regardless the (idiocy) candidate. It's the party they believe gives them the greatest benefit. I must say I did have a rather surreal conversation with two very close friends of mine (Americans) who stayed with us for a week just 4 weeks ago. Every night over dinner it came up and every time they supported trump! These are well off, middle class, well educated white people working in IT with well paid white collar jobs. I was a little flabbergasted at first, just naturally assuming they would condemn him after the misogyny scandal broke. But they kept "selling" him to me and the more they sold, the more obsessed I became with trying to understand what was driving the thinking. In the end I think there were two distinct drivers:

First, they really quite seriously don't like Hilary. I've rarely seen hate for a person that someone has never actually met but boy oh boy I saw it then! Clinton seemed to illicit a very passionate response that was interlaced with a great many conspiracy theories but underneath which the "crook" accusation was the heart of it.

Second and this was the one that I couldn't help but argue about: They were hacked off with the democrats giving away what they call "free stuff". By this they meant all the tax dollars that fund various social and welfare programs for various disadvantaged and/or minority groups. I pointed out politely that surely they must realise that a civil society has a duty to deliver some form of social justice but they countered with....if we keep giving them free stuff....they become dependent on the state, fat, lazy, spongers, dole bludgers etc etc.....sound familiar???

In the end I had to stop because my mate started to go to bed early in a huff! But what that series of debates left me with is an understanding that the binary nature of American society, the winners and losers culture is very much still alive. As a nation I don't believe their culture is any where near as tolerant or charitable as ours is in Britain.

So I was a little shocked and a little disappointed but then it's not my hard earned dollars that the private sector has just had to pony up to pay for Obama care. Anybody with their own small business is really upset about that. I pointed out that if someone went into business with so little profit that they couldn't really afford to fund their workforce properly, then they were in error, not the administration, and suddenly I was alone at the dinner table!!!

So, it's not just the great unwashed that vote for Mr Looney...some people with an O level did too!

Very few Americans agree with socialism. Even their socialist politicians are at most, center right imo. My friends are the same. There is no way in hell they would ever vote for hilary clinton, yet a few of them did vote for Obama. All business owners, all middle class suburban residents with trucks, boats, health insurance and swimming pools. Intelligent and driven individuals. I haven't plucked up the courage to ask if anyone voted for Trump. Last time we discussed, they were going to vote independent.

It was the candidate that sunk the democrats.

She just couldn't sell it.

Class divide in America is far more pronounced than here in my opinion. It only takes a drive through rural Arkansas to realise this. I've never seen such overt poverty.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

Yes....the furthest South I ever got on business was Dallas which is of course dripping with oil wealth so I never made it into the hinterlands where the real poverty is. I agree Clinton couldn't sell it. So now we have a double glazing/real estate salesman with his finger on the nuclear trigger

 

[Jacob]

The thing with Corbyn is he's very popular with the new grass roots membership, not with Labour politicians. Looking at the recent parliamentary Tor...sorry Labour Party that's not necessarily a bad thing.

:lol:
He's also popular with the old grass roots membership - polls say he would have won the election without the new kids.

 

[YorkshireMartin]

Yes....the furthest South I ever got on business was Dallas which is of course dripping with oil wealth so I never made it into the hinterlands where the real poverty is. I agree Clinton couldn't sell it. So now we have a double glazing/real estate salesman with his finger on the nuclear trigger

Dallas is the area I've spent the most time recently. It has some horrific areas, but still nothing like the poverty in the countryside of some states, including texas. It's just unbelievable.

Tempted to find a street view to show it. Might do later on.

 

[RogerS]

The thing with Corbyn is he's very popular with the new grass roots membership, not with Labour politicians. Looking at the recent parliamentary Tor...sorry Labour Party that's not necessarily a bad thing.

:lol:
He's also popular with the old grass roots membership - polls say he would have won the election without the new kids.

Love it, Jacob. You are a past master at spouting pearls of wisdom, such as "polls say he would have won the election without the new kids" , as if they came down from the Sermon on the Mount. And yet you offer no links or evidence to support such pearls of wisdom.

 

[YorkshireMartin]

The thing with Corbyn is he's very popular with the new grass roots membership, not with Labour politicians. Looking at the recent parliamentary Tor...sorry Labour Party that's not necessarily a bad thing.

:lol:
He's also popular with the old grass roots membership - polls say he would have won the election without the new kids.

Love it, Jacob. You are a past master at spouting pearls of wisdom, such as "polls say he would have won the election without the new kids" , as if they came down from the Sermon on the Mount. And yet you offer no links or evidence to support such pearls of wisdom.

Close, Corbyn came out of the Ark.

 

[RogerS]

He's also popular with the old grass roots membership - polls say he would have won the election without the new kids.

Love it, Jacob. You are a past master at spouting pearls of wisdom, such as "polls say he would have won the election without the new kids" , as if they came down from the Sermon on the Mount. And yet you offer no links or evidence to support such pearls of wisdom.

Close, Corbyn came out of the Ark.

=D>

 

[bugbear]

The thing with Corbyn is he's very popular with the new grass roots membership, not with Labour politicians. Looking at the recent parliamentary Tor...sorry Labour Party that's not necessarily a bad thing.

:lol:
He's also popular with the old grass roots membership - polls say he would have won the election without the new kids.

Love it, Jacob. You are a past master at spouting pearls of wisdom, such as "polls say he would have won the election without the new kids" , as if they came down from the Sermon on the Mount. And yet you offer no links or evidence to support such pearls of wisdom.

More post factual politics.

BugBear

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

Lets keep it civil guys....the usual "love triangle" of BB, Roger and Jacob....you know you guys should stop pontificating on here and throw your hats in the ring....go for gold and see if you can get elected....then you might actually be able to change something for the good.

 

[No skills]

I would vote..

 

[Jacob]

The thing with Corbyn is he's very popular with the new grass roots membership, not with Labour politicians. Looking at the recent parliamentary Tor...sorry Labour Party that's not necessarily a bad thing.

:lol:
He's also popular with the old grass roots membership - polls say he would have won the election without the new kids.

Love it, Jacob. You are a past master at spouting pearls of wisdom, such as "polls say he would have won the election without the new kids" , as if they came down from the Sermon on the Mount. And yet you offer no links or evidence to support such pearls of wisdom.

The figures are out there somewhere. Don't give up so easily. In both membership elections Corbyn got a majority without the contribution of the new membership.

 

[RogerS]

He's also popular with the old grass roots membership - polls say he would have won the election without the new kids.

Love it, Jacob. You are a past master at spouting pearls of wisdom, such as "polls say he would have won the election without the new kids" , as if they came down from the Sermon on the Mount. And yet you offer no links or evidence to support such pearls of wisdom.

The figures are out there somewhere. Don't give up so easily. In both membership elections Corbyn got a majority without the contribution of the new membership.

But you keep doing this, Jacob. Why ? You make a sweeping generalisation and then when challenged, rather than defend your position and provide evidence to support your generalisation, you tell the challenger to go and look for themselves. That's not how debating or discussion goes. Well, at least not in the real world. By not providing any evidence, the logical conclusion is that you simply made it all up just to get a reaction. And that is called 'trolling'.

 

[Woodmonkey]

Love it, Jacob. You are a past master at spouting pearls of wisdom, such as "polls say he would have won the election without the new kids" , as if they came down from the Sermon on the Mount. And yet you offer no links or evidence to support such pearls of wisdom.

The figures are out there somewhere. Don't give up so easily. In both membership elections Corbyn got a majority without the contribution of the new membership.[/quote]

But you keep doing this, Jacob. Why ? You make a sweeping generalisation and then when challenged, rather than defend your position and provide evidence to support your generalisation, you tell the challenger to go and look for themselves. That's not how debating or discussion goes. Well, at least not in the real world. By not providing any evidence, the logical conclusion is that you simply made it all up just to get a reaction. And that is called 'trolling'.[/quote]

Since new members were banned from voting, he did win with support of grass roots members

 

[RobinBHM]

This is old news, it doesnt matter how popular Jeremy is with the labour party members, modern politics occupies the centre ground, the ideals of the old 2 party politics to right and left is really not so relevent as we move further into this century.

I think its a shame Jeremy Corbyn is putting the party to the far left making labour marginal. I think he is a man of principal and like the fact he is different to the bland career politicians weve had recently, they all seem to have the same media scholl learning soundbites and body language for TV.

Wouldnt it be great if Donald Trump now met with Muslim leaders and the bereaved families in the recent police shootings of black people to reverse his devisive rhetoric.

 

[YorkshireMartin]

Just read that Trump is not scrapping Obamacare, but will reform it. That's his first reversal I believe, of many to come. He will turn out to be far more centrist that people expected. His radicalism got him elected, but I think he'll find that being elected alone, isn't enough to effectively govern and will have to placate the many thousands of staff of which he is now manager.

Putting everything else aside, he had virtually zero experience of any kind of politics outside the board room. Can you imagine how daunting it would be if you won an election you didn't truly expect to win, and suddenly had to run the most powerful country in the world? lol

I get nervous just watching the news, nevermind making it.

 

[Woodmonkey]

This is old news, it doesnt matter how popular Jeremy is with the labour party members, modern politics occupies the centre ground, the ideals of the old 2 party politics to right and left is really not so relevent as we move further into this century.

I don't agree with that, recent politics have been lurching both right (trump, brexit) and left (Corbin, Bernie Sanders)

 

[Mr_P]

The anti-Trump mob really don't understand how he won and to prove it they are burning MADE IN AMERICA trainers in protest

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/3 ... over-trump

Seems to be acting lot saner now he's been elected.