off topic, but I'm getting desperate

[sunnybob]

I'm trying to find out if I can take pictures on my LG72 mobile phone, in the dark and without flash. This is to photograph animals where no white light is allowed.
I've been told it can be done, but I cant find anything anywhere.
Is there an expert in the house?

 

[sunnybob]

Edit, its an LG 70 phone. oops

 

[novocaine]

you've got a tiny little sensor behind a tiny little bit of glass.
the only way you are going to get an image is to get lots of light to hit it.
you can do this in 2 ways. add a big light or leave it being hit by what light there is for longer. so no you can't really.

well ok, there is another way, you bump up the gain, make all the little pixels on the sensor work harder, it's called ISO but that isn't really true anymore (throwback to film days). down side, like turning up the gain on a guitar amp, lots of noise. you phone has 5 iso settings, pick the highest number.

don't expect anything good though. if you want to take pictures in the dark, buy an infrared light source and remove the filter on the sensor.
you might be better buying a cheap point and shoot camera for this though.

 

[Eric The Viking]

Bob, FWIW I agree with everything Novocaine has said, above.

Wildlife photography is usually very difficult. My little mouse, for example, was taken in dawn or dusk light (can't remember now) on a decent SLR camera with a decent and fairly fast lens. The original is borderline unusable, because of picture noise. Mice (and most wildlife) not being very big, he only occupies a small part of the original image, which makes the effect of the noise a lot worse, and the image lacks detail.

Infra-red light is the top end of heat. Normally that affects sensors in a bad way - the noise goes up and detail goes down - so camera manufacturers fit infra-red filters that block a lot of it from reaching the sensor. So while the sensor alone will probably work in infra-red, it is prevented, by design, from actually doing so, and for good reason in normal use. Canon (and others, at a guess) make special IR versions of a few of their professional cameras, with the filters removed, for this reason.

if you control the environment in which you want to take pictures, you might use infra-red lights around the likely area, but you'd need a lot.

You might use a security or car dash-cam camera - if you can find one with a recorder card slot that would be best. They are usually setup to work with IR (but not always - check). The problem with a dash-cam though is that the lens angle is usually far too wide to be useful for this purpose without modification. And a security cam will need power.

"Camera trap" devices are the dog's for this. They usually have a motion sensor to trigger the camera, and IR lighting or flash built in, and a strap for a treetrunk or whatever. They often record video on a continuous loop (motion triggers it to be saved from, say, 2 mins before the trigger). They're amazingly compact, considering (thick paperback novel). Can you rent or borrow something more suitable from a local camera shop on the island?

I'm dying to know what you're stalking...

E.

 

[sunnybob]

Eric, to put you our of your misery.....

new born baby turtles.

Last year we went to release some at Alagadi beach Northern Cyprus. They have a facebook page i know, although I dont. Its run by students from Exeter University.

It was great fun, They remove the eggs from the nest the day before hatching, and take them all down to the sea at night. This way there are no bird predators. But, no white lights of any kind allowed because the turtles have to see the stars reflecting off the water and they travel to the light (mostly, a couple turned around and went back up the beach. But they were shown the error of their ways). Some of the people there were using their mobile phones not only to take pictures, but even videos.
This is a deserted beach with no lighting. The stars were dim and no moon. It was hard to see them once they were more than two foot away.
This august we are going again (its only an hours drive from our place) but this time taking three small grandchildren. We want to be able to take pictures of them with the turtles.

The turtles are so small, that the girl handed us one each and told us to hold it with two fingers underneath and the thumb on top of the shell. I couldnt. My two fingers were wide enough for the thing to use its flippers on them and almost launched itself from 4 ft. up. i had to use only one finger and thumb, and even then barely held on as it tried to move forwards.

So i know it can be done with a mobile. I just dont know how.

 

[galleywood]

Hi

Did you see the results of the photos and videos that the others took, or are you assuming they were OK?

 

[Eric The Viking]

Ah. And aah!

Sounds very special.

I suggest this: see if you can find an infra-red torch (ideally several) or a filter to fit a torch...

... or an IR security light, to take with you. They usually show a dim red glow (as the light output usually spreads into the visible spectrum slightly), but shouldn't be a nuisance. They'll be bright in the infra red though.

Here's a randomly-picked example:

I think it's only 6cm diameter (ambiguous spec.!), so would fit in a pocket. It needs 12V and will flatten an AA-based battery fairly fast, because it's quite high current, but turn-on, snap, turn-off ought to work for ages (assistant to hold the lamp?).

You might use

with

and

to make a power pack for it, no switch necessary, but make sure you wire the plug to the press-stud lead the right way round!

There are plenty of others out there of similar design. Get something and experiment in the garden before the event or simply in a room with ordinary lights off. Check the angle of coverage of the lamp and what distance away the lamp needs to be for the best result. Also ask the experts if it'll be OK (I expect so, as most filming of turtles emerging is done using IR or visible red light).

Don't pay more than a pound for the press-stud connector - they should be pennies, and little more for the battery box. When you make it, sticky tape it into a fairly tough plastic bag,of some sort, so the contacts can't short out, and keep nothing else in that pocket, especially no loose change nor keys nor the lamp (if it has a metal case) nor the phone camera itself.

I think the only real obstacle will be how good the phone's IR filter is, and if those in charge will actually let you.

Hope it's as special as it ought to be!

E.

PS: The battery box needs eight AA cells (12V). You turn the lamp on or off just by plugging it in. I'd join a longer bit of cable to the battery press-stud wires (cut red and black to be different lengths by about 2" solder the extra length on (different lengths too) and carefully insulate the joins ideally with heatshrink pieces (use a hot-air paintstripper to shrink it, or just a candle flame. If there's a security camera company on the island, they might have the lamps.

Obviously, if doing this the pictures will either come out black and white or extremely red. You'll have to change them to black and white with a picture editor - Paintshop pro, Photoshop, gimp or another of your choice. I'd guess a grandchildrens' parent might do this for you! They _will_ be a bit noisy even then (speckled), because you're only providing light for 1/3 of the sensors (the red ones). The green and blue ones will just add noise, and those colours should be filtered out of the pictures before finally making them black and white for best results.

Bear in mind too that the lamp will swamp the natural moonlight etc. so it won't look very natural -- not like an out-of-doors picture in daylight, more like a flash picture.

 

[novocaine]

point your tv remote at your phones camera and look at the screen while pressing a button. if you see the flashes of light then your phone has a rubbish IR filter, do as Eric suggests and your going to get the best images of the lot (well those that insist on using a phone as a camera anyway). they aren't going to be in colour though.
your phone has a night mode on it, but don't expect miracles from that.

 

[sunnybob]

I saw the other peoples phone faces, and the pics looked quite reasonable.

While I am technical enough to make what Eric suggests, it seems a lot of work for a 1/4 hours experience.
The girls that are in charge of the releasing wore small head torches, the kind that can be switched from white to red. maybe I am overthinking this infra red bit.
i will get my missus to ask them direct on the facebook page. i would expect them to have guidelines.
I will report back when I have news. Thanks.

 

[novocaine]

if your ok with red light then stick a sweet wrapper over your flash. you can black and white the image in post and no one will really know.

 

[sunnybob]

They were very insistant about no flash, whatever colour, but I'm sure the torches they were using were ordinary push bike types rather than infra red.

 

[bugbear]

While I am technical enough to make what Eric suggests, it seems a lot of work for a 1/4 hours experience.

Have you seen the preparation people put in for a Solar Eclipse viewing?!

BugBear

 

[sunnybob]

yeah, but that aint me

 

[gmgmgm]

If you have a red torch or head-torch, then just point that at the turtle and take the photograph without flash. The brighter the better (but don't confuse the turtles!). That's all a flash is.

 

[DiscoStu]

Wildlife photography is one of the most expensive photographic hobbies you can have, second possibly to aviation and sports. Personally I'd say ditch the phone and just enjoy the experience. If you try to take photos you'll spend all your time messing about and get a rubbish result and will miss the actual experience. Better to enjoy the actual thing? Just my thoughts. One other option you do have is to hire kit. I used to hire a £4,000 lens for an event and it cost me about £150 I think. (Week long hire). They did also hire camera bodies. Not sure about infrared flash for hire though. Generally you have an IR filter for a flash. I did some IR photography when it was still film - lots of fun.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[oakmitre]

There's a free program on the Android store called Tina Time Lapse. It may or may not work on your phone.

It works on my Samsung Galaxy S4, more importantly with the screen off. That way it doesn't produce any light or run the battery down as quick.

It does not detect motion, just takes photos at set intervals.

You could give it a try.

 

[sunnybob]

I'm not getting in to big expense on this. It would be nice to have some pics of the grandkids releasing the turtles, but as it happens, this year their parents will also be there. So they can do the technology bit i think.

Could be a record year this year, we have an early heat wave and there are lots of turtle sightings. Two friends who scuba tell me they are often swimming with the turtles now.
Theyre keeping a look out for some when the littluns are here, so they can go snorkel with them.
I never saw any turtles off the isle of Sheppy when I was a kid.

 

[Eric The Viking]

Honestly, I'm with Stu on this - kick back and enjoy. And tell the parents to do that too.

I learned a lesson when we went to see BB King some years ago to celebrate a family birthday. I sneaked a small camera in, but the thing had a screen on the back. I soon got tapped on the shoulder, and rightly so.

I realised how (a) I'd never get good shots that way, and (b) I was spoiling it for other people. Shamed, genuinely. The kids, however, remember that evening fondly, how we all had a great time, and how the music was great!

So enjoy making memories, rather than merely taking photos.

E.