Now THAT'S policing :)

[rafezetter]

I've just been watching a TV program about Ireland Customs and police stopped a white van and did a check on it's fuel and found RED diesel in the tank, almost full.

Now she gave them a caution and told them it is an offence but here's the kicker, the fine is 5,000 euro's and even better if he (the driver) cannot pay 2,000 euros there and then at the roadside, the van gets seized, there and then.

He was not a happy bunny to say the least as he didn't have that sort of money available to him, but I have to take my hat off to the fact that even though Ireland seems to have a reputation of being lax about many things - the lady customs officer gave this guy absolutely no quarter at all.

I wish more of our police in UK were as hard hitting about what is in actuality quite a minor offense in the scheme of things, and even harder about worse offenses.

 

[Gary]

Where as here we seize the vehicle, so if it's 300k worth of artic it makes their fine somewhat small.

 

[monkeybiter]

Some years back I was taking night classes in psychology and the subject of crime and punishment came up:

The point made was that for some serious crimes such as murder [particularly crimes of passion] no increase of penalty will prevent the act, expensive punishment was useless.

Less serious 'misbehaviour' could be affected by a change in penalty, the example give was that if the penalty for illegal parking was increased to the death then nobody would offend.

 

[Jonzjob]

"the example give was that if the penalty for illegal parking was increased to the death then nobody would offend."

Well, not more than once anyway :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

 

[bugbear]

I've just been watching a TV program about Ireland Customs and police stopped a white van and did a check on it's fuel and found RED diesel in the tank, almost full.

Now she gave them a caution and told them it is an offence but here's the kicker, the fine is 5,000 euro's and even better if he (the driver) cannot pay 2,000 euros there and then at the roadside, the van gets seized, there and then.

He was not a happy bunny to say the least as he didn't have that sort of money available to him, but I have to take my hat off to the fact that even though Ireland seems to have a reputation of being lax about many things - the lady customs officer gave this guy absolutely no quarter at all.

I wish more of our police in UK were as hard hitting about what is in actuality quite a minor offense in the scheme of things, and even harder about worse offenses.

Obviously, the incidents chosen to be shown on a reality TV show may (or may well not) be representative of normal practice.

BugBear

 

[John Brown]

@ Monkeybiter:
I have trotted out this argument many times in response to the "mugger let off with caution versus some variety of white collar crime(Insurance fraud/tax evasion etc.) punished severely" diatribe. I always ask the person what is is that stops them mugging old ladies in the street. Is it the fear of punishment? Probably not. On the other hand, it's suprising how many people think tax evasion or insurance fraud are totally acceptable, as long as you don't get caught.

P.S. I think you'll find "gotten" is actually old English. We just don't use it that much today.

 

[Jonzjob]

The American and archaic British usage of the verb conjugates as get-got-gotten or as get-got-got depending on the meaning, whereas the modern British usage of the verb has largely lost this distinction and conjugates as get-got-got in most cases except, sometimes, where the speaker wants to emphasise getting something. There is an increased usage of gotten than there was in the past in the UK which may be due to influence from American usage via films and increased access to American programmes in Britain but it is still less common than the get-got-got conjugation. :shock:

 

[Phil Pascoe]

It's only used in "ill gotten gains".
I thought the best one was a few years ago someone found out that if red diesel, which is our agricultural and green (iirc, or blue) which is Southern Irish agricultural were mixed, the colour would settle out. They were sending tankers to Eire, bringing them back to Liverpool full and mixing them with a tanker of red then selling it on as legit. It was wrecking high end diesel motors, apparently, as there are fewer lubricants in it.

 

[graduate_owner]

What gets me is inconsistency. I was reading our local rag some while ago and magistrates fined a driver who had no insurance or MOT, and no full driving licence - he was fined something like £150. In ths same newspaper, the same magistrates fined a motorist £250 for not wearing a seat belt. So what harm and what potential danger is the second motorist doing by his criminal actions, other than possible danger to himself? Whereas the first - not passed a driving test?

K

 

[monkeybiter]

What amuses me is when somebody caught driving without a license is banned from driving.

What exasperates me is when a drunk driver who runs someone over is penalised more than a drunk driver who doesn't, or vice versa, or when death by dangerous driving is judged to be worse than near miss by dangerous driving.

 

[rafezetter]

What amuses me is when somebody caught driving without a license is banned from driving.

What exasperates me is when a drunk driver who runs someone over is penalised more than a drunk driver who doesn't, or vice versa, or when death by dangerous driving is judged to be worse than near miss by dangerous driving.

I'm fairly sure death by dangerous driving IS actually worse than a near miss.

I know there are huge inconsistencies within the highway laws, but I was just glad to see in this instance a guy getting well and truly nailed for an offence he so obviously knew he had broken, he said he had a tractor at his farm, had run out of deisel and "topped up" his tank with that - but she could tell his tank was FULL, not "just enough to get me to the nearest garage" - and he was so nonchalant about the accusation it was obvious it wasn't his first time.

As far as the "televised, so maybe/probably not common practise" argument goes; well maybe, but maybe not. I'd like to think that the Irish customs and police are not lax in reality; otherwise if the general population knows that they won't get nailed, what's the point of such a scene being televised? It's just reality TV, not propaganda.

 

[monkeybiter]

I'm fairly sure death by dangerous driving IS actually worse than a near miss.

The result is worse, the act is the same. The offender is being punished based on his [and others'] luck.

It's just reality TV, not propaganda.

I was about to berate your naivete at thinking the police would give consent to a reality programme that isn't propaganda, then I remembered those UK based police reality programmes, how the police would allow themselves to be shown in such a thuggish, ignorant and borderline corrupt way is quite incredible. Maybe you're right.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

The result is worse, the act is the same. The offender is being punished based on his [and others'] luck?

Yes. I got T boned by a young girl when she overshot a roundabout, and she stoved the side of the car in 18". I asked the copper attending what she would be charged with - and he said nothing. I pointed out that had I a passenger, they wouldn't have any legs left intact - he replied that it was just as well I didn't.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

What amuses me is when somebody caught driving without a license is banned from driving.

A few years ago in the local press there was a guy banned from driving for driving while banned ... for the forty first time. :?

 

[rafezetter]

THe guardian today has run this story:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...erm=196826&subid=19184442&CMP=EMCNEWEML6619I2

Fines issued dropped from 123,000 to just 16,900 in 5 years with a 43% drop in 2015 alone.

My cousin got hit off his push bike (and onto the bonnet) a couple of years ago by a driver on a phone, going the wrong way up a one way side street at night, got a broken leg and a badly twisted rotator cuff, spent 3 months off work as a firefighter and longer with light duties and physio. He told them the driver was on the phone and going the wrong way up a one way system, but they failed to check his phone records and it was "only his account that the driver was going the wrong way". My cousin is a station officer and appliance driver with 10+ years experience, but that seemingly amounted for nothing.

Driver denied all of it and got almost nothing by way of punishment.

 

[Rorschach]

THe guardian today has run this story:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...erm=196826&subid=19184442&CMP=EMCNEWEML6619I2

Fines issued dropped from 123,000 to just 16,900 in 5 years with a 43% drop in 2015 alone.

Strikes me as a load of old rot, how do you know how many people are getting away with it. It's like saying this year was bad, we only convicted 1 murderer, well if there was only 1 murder that year, that's pretty darn good. A drop in conviction doesn't mean that everyone else is getting away with it.

 

[RogerS]

THe guardian today has run this story:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...erm=196826&subid=19184442&CMP=EMCNEWEML6619I2

Fines issued dropped from 123,000 to just 16,900 in 5 years with a 43% drop in 2015 alone.

Strikes me as a load of old rot, how do you know how many people are getting away with it. It's like saying this year was bad, we only convicted 1 murderer, well if there was only 1 murder that year, that's pretty darn good. A drop in conviction doesn't mean that everyone else is getting away with it.

I don't know how much driving you do (if any) but whenever I go out and admittedly usually only just down to town, I can guarantee that I will see at least four drivers on their mobile. It has definitely gone up over the last few years. The police are under-resourced.

 

[transatlantic]

THe guardian today has run this story:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...erm=196826&subid=19184442&CMP=EMCNEWEML6619I2

Fines issued dropped from 123,000 to just 16,900 in 5 years with a 43% drop in 2015 alone.

Strikes me as a load of old rot, how do you know how many people are getting away with it. It's like saying this year was bad, we only convicted 1 murderer, well if there was only 1 murder that year, that's pretty darn good. A drop in conviction doesn't mean that everyone else is getting away with it.

I don't know how much driving you do (if any) but whenever I go out and admittedly usually only just down to town, I can guarantee that I will see at least four drivers on their mobile. It has definitely gone up over the last few years. The police are under-resourced.

Same here. I have a half hour drive to work, and can always spot at least one.

Whenever I am behind someone, and notice their vehicle struggling to follow the road lines, I'll get annoyed and overtake, and then look into the drivers side as I pass to see what they're doing .... 9 times out of 10 they're fixated on the mobile in their hand. Tempting to wack on the horn, but I wouldn't want to risk startling them and causing an accident.

And another thing that REALLY annoys me is having to wait twice as long for somone to perform a parking maneuver due to them trying to do with one hand as they're on the phone with the other.

 

[bugbear]

I think the incidence of builders etc using their phones in their vans as they leave my local Jewson is near 100%.

I assume they're calling the site (or customer) to say they're on their way.

BugBear

 

[Rorschach]

THe guardian today has run this story:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...erm=196826&subid=19184442&CMP=EMCNEWEML6619I2

Fines issued dropped from 123,000 to just 16,900 in 5 years with a 43% drop in 2015 alone.

Strikes me as a load of old rot, how do you know how many people are getting away with it. It's like saying this year was bad, we only convicted 1 murderer, well if there was only 1 murder that year, that's pretty darn good. A drop in conviction doesn't mean that everyone else is getting away with it.

I don't know how much driving you do (if any) but whenever I go out and admittedly usually only just down to town, I can guarantee that I will see at least four drivers on their mobile. It has definitely gone up over the last few years. The police are under-resourced.

I do a fair bit of driving, short, medium and occasionally long distance. Do I see people using their phones, yes, even had a few closes calls because of people distracted by their phones. Do I count and keep statistical data, no, I couldn't say if it was more or less than 10 years ago, probably similar from my personal experience. Is it a problem? Absolutely, I would never do, not even hands free (which I think is just as bad as holding your phone) and I would urge others to do the same. The statistics pointed out say nothing about the numbers of people doing it dangerously or otherwise, it simply points out how many have been caught and from that you can infer very little about the real picture of offending and/or policing of it.