Nova 1624-44 A Big Disapointment

[gandy]

i think your whole Chinese quality control man being paid half a sack of rice a month is a bit out of line, have you been to any factory in china at all? you should go, yes there paid less an hour than us, but they often get paid more in a factory then if they where in farming, or shop work etc.

sorry but it gripes me when people moan about things man in china, and or that the people doing the work in china are under paid. most of it is rubbish, and lets face it, when it comes to mechines, the Chinese have got it down to a tee

anyway back to your lathe, you have been offered a new one by Stuart, but alan is asking for just the head stock and tail stock, can you not phone up and ask for stuart and get it sorted one-two-one and not thourgh alan?

 

[CHJ]

Unfortunately because a tailstock centre is position is not critical to between centres (spindle) turning on a wood lathe, (think pole lathe for how non critical it is) there does not seem to be the effort or cost put into ensuring good alignment.

Not a problem until you want to do some drilling or machine through the tailstock boring, when the lax axis control just won't allow any accurate work.

When checking tailstock alignment even ensuring points kiss is not of any real use, the axis of the headstock and tailstock spindles need to be in line if tailstock controlled drilling is to be performed.

 

[wyngate]

Well, no news on the Record front. No phone calls. I had to go to work at 1pm, so maybe they rang whilst I was out.

I got up this morning and thought, "to **** with it". I am losing interest, I really can't be bothered. In fact, I have not done any turning in over a week and have no desire to recommence it. All I am really worrying about is can I sell the lathe.

Tonight I stripped it down. I found that the pivot bolt, on which the head rotates, was very loose, so I tightened it. You cannot tighten it too much otherwise the head will not rotate at all. It did seem to make a difference. I am sure that the height difference (alignment), is now less than it was, maybe half a millimeter. Or perhaps it just seems that way.

Teknatool's manual says that there is a tolerance of 0.5mm. So much for laser alignment. But I have to ask you guys: Is this acceptable? I mean, it wouldn't be acceptable on a metal lathe. I ran the motor up on my bench, it definitely vibrates and this is the main cause of the noise and vibration on the lathe. The manual says that 1ph motors are prone to this. This is rubbish! I used to rewind them. I would say that it is probably the drive pulley on the motor causing this. Well, they drill a hole through the pulley on one side so you can access the grub screw holding it on the shaft. To be balanced, it needs a hole on the other side too. Don't forget, that motor is whirling round at nearly 3000rpm.

I still can't figure out why the motor shaft is locking when pivoted for belt changing. Nothing looks abnormal on my lathe. And yet, on the other Novas that I looked at, it was Ok. Because of this, belt changing takes ages, especially if you want to go from one end of the speed range to the other.

I will keep you informed of any developments.

Graham.

 

[hughey]

Teknatool lathes and equipement.

Since they moved to China there have been problems with quality. Although this is the first time I have heard it about lathes, usually its chucks and accessories.

Its a lemon and not fit for the purpose it was intended. tell em to pick it up.


Its a shame as when the manufacturing was in NZ, no problems at all, world a class product, but lately........

 

[wyngate]

Just to update on the Nova front:

Record agreed to take the lathe in for assessment. They seemed to have forgotton about just changing it as promised.

Anyway, they wanted to drop a pallet, I was to somehow rope the lathe to it and a carrier would pick it up. No Way! Hey, this is still my lathe and it isn't leaving here tied to a pallet. I got on to Alan and said," Look, you don't need the leg stand, or the tool rest, tool slide and banjo thingy".
He agreed. "Right leave it to me".

I left him mystified, when I told him I would pack it. And pack it I have, into 4 boxes. I removed the motor, this went into box 1, removed the headstock, box 2. Tailstock, box 3. lathe bed, box 4. Not so easy this one as I had to make a box for it.

This lathe is now professionally packed, far better than it ever was originally. And each box is managable. I can lift each one with ease.

So, now I am waiting for Record to contact me about pick up.

Hopefully, all will be resolved, soon.

Graham.

 

[wyngate]

Well, my Nova lathe was collected today and is now en route to Record.

Well, I have never believed that occasionally there is a bad anything made. If there is one, there will certainly be others. And, it turns out I am right.
Here is a link to a you Tube video. This is a Nova DVR lathe. Noisy? Well, it makes mine sound whisper quite.

As our friend from down under commented, there have been quality issues since production was moved to China.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8ExAU_JQsU

Enjoy the video.

Graham

 

[wyngate]

Now, I guess by now that you are all sick of me and won't bother to read this, but I would like Technatool International to read it.
Anyway, here is the update:

The said Nova lathe was shipped back to Record Power, whereupon they examined it. They agreed that it was noisy and innacurate, although they did quote Technatool's blurb about a +/- 0.5mm tolerance on accuracy. But, this is only stated in the instructions. In the pre-sales blurb, they tell you about their high tech pricision laser alignment.

Stuart Pickering of Record agreed to exchange the lathe for a brand spanking new one and, they sent it out to me in just one week from me dispatching the old one. Impressive what? The same guy who picked up mine, delivered the new one. " don't chuck the box away" he grinned, "you will probably need it to send this one back."

Was he just pratting about? I dunno.

So, all excited, I assembled the new lathe. Now, I had no qualms about this replacement, because Record told me that they had assembled it and tested it, and it was spot on. So, alignment check, well spot on vertically but I had to adjust the horizontal plane slightly. No big deal and it is now aligned perfectly. I smiled smugly.

Look here it is:

I reached for the start button, suddenly, the smile dropped from my ugly face. It was noisy, it vibrated. It vibrated so much that the handle which locks the toolrest was jiggering about and rattling. I tried different speeds, little change. I checked all the bolts - tight.

Alan from Record rang up Mon morning to ask if all was alright. I told him, as much as it pained me to do so. He probably thinks that I am a moaning old git, which according to my wife, I am. Anyway, he couldn't understand it. I asked him if they had checked it running and he said they had and that they thought it was OK.

But, it is not OK. I put the Supernava chuck on, hit the button - YIKES! Even worse. The lathe has just sat there now for over a week, so tonight I had to use it - I put in a piece of ash, which is only 20mm square - hey look:

Should this be a problem for a lathe that is supposed to be able to turn 29 inch diameter table tops? Well it was. So much so that I had to shut the stupid bl**dy thing down. It can't handle it! Really, It cannot handle a small stick!

Well thank you Technacrap! You seduced me with your lying sales blurb, now I am stuck with a hunk of pure cast iron junk! If it is unusable, then it's junk.

I will tell you just how bad this piece of junk is: There is so much vibration I cannot hold the tool at a constant angle. It is so noisy that that it would drown out the sound of a Jumbo jet taking off. Exagerating? I just wish I were. I will tell you the truth:

If I was to start my bandsaw, grinder, sanding machine, put the radio on, bring my old diesel van into the garage as well, the Nova would drown out the lot! and that's the truth. I had to switch off the lathe whilst turning a twig because I honestly thought that it would disintegrate - the lathe that is, not the twig.

This thing is far worse than the first lathe. At least I could use that thing. This I cannot use, full bl**dy stop.

I have to say, that I have no gripes with Record. they have been good. Stuart rang me up after I had sent back the first lathe and asked if I wanted to change it completely for a different model, like the CL4-CAM which I was admiring at the Evans show. But, I decided to stick with the 1624 thinking maybe I had just got a bad one. Reccord, by way of compensation have even offered me a free days training with Alan Holtham.

So, what's the chances of me getting 2 bad ones? What this means is that Technacrap have absolutely no quality control and that since relocating in China, their standards have dropped - Big Time!

I emailed Technatool, this is what they said,

"We do have very strict quality controls, however only for a percentage of each batch, so it would seem your particular lathe have slipped through. We can only apologise for this, this is not a typical NOVA experience."

So, there we have it. It's funny though, because both of my lathes came with quality conrol certificates, signed by a guy called David.

So, where now? To be honest, I don't care. I am sick of stupid lathes, I don't want one anymore, I don't want to pratt about with bits of wood. I don't want that thing taking up garage space. pipper woodturning, I've had it.

Graham.

 

[wizer]

What a bloody PITA Graham. I don't know what to advise you other than not to give up. Why don't you get Record to bring you yet another one that Alan Holtham himself has checked over, or better still, you go up there and make sure your getting a good'n. Your experience seems to be rare if not completely isolated as that lathe is revered amongst it's users.

Don't give up mate.

 

[TEP]

Believe me Graham, I'm not sick of reading this. I can only commiserate with the really bad luck you seem to be having.

I have owned a Nova 3000 for many years now since when they first came to these shores. It has done everything I have thrown at it, and it so impressed me I even converted it to EVS myself. I still use it today, it owes me nothing now, but I doubt whether I would change it for another make of lathe.

I know this doesn't help you, but if I was you I would get straight back to Record and tell them to take the lathe back and get a refund. I can understand why you are sorely disappointed, but don't let Record/Technatool get away with it.

Send it back and get your refund, there are plenty other good lathes out there.

 

[cookie777]

Hi Graham,
Sorry to read of all your problems with Record,I can only say don't give up because there are good lathes & sellers with first class service.You could get your money back from the record dealer & have options such as a Jet lathe from Axminster power tool co.,reliable lathe with good after sales service,next day, not next week or next month,or a hegner hdb200xl with german build quality.I have no connection with either of these companys other than being a satisfied customer,but thank you for warning us of records poor service I will certainly give them a wide berth until they get their act sorted
Regards cookie

 

[BMac]

Hi Graham,

I'm not bored either, I am extremely interested because, just when you first posted, I was about to spend £500 on a Record bandsaw but I held off to see how you were dealt with and I have now decided to look elsewhere because I have lost confidence in their products. That doesn't help you much but I would echo the other guys and suggest you contact Record again for either a lathe of your choice after seeing it work or your money back.

Brendan

 

[Chrisp]

Hi Graham,

Stick in there and get a decent replacement or a refund and buy another lathe, don't let this stop you from entering the addictive world of turning, we all know how bad it is trying to work with sub-standard equipment (mine are hindered due to budget constraints) you shouldn't have the problems you are having, get onto them again and don't give up, have you read the post on Woodworkers Institute about the Maxi 2 lathe another Record import, much of the same quality control i'm afraid! hope it all works out well for you.
Regards Chris.

 

[Richard Findley]

Hi mate,

Doesn't it just drive you mad when s**t like this happens!!!! Send it back, get your money back and buy a lathe from elsewhere. No one needs hassel like this from what is supposed to be a hobby!!!! (before you've even started your hobby!!!!!!!!!!!)

I hope all gets sorted for you soon.

Richard

 

[Bodrighy]

Reading through this post makes me realise that there are two limitations with lathes
1 size and ability of the lathe which is liveable with and you can work around it
2 quality of the lathe which you can't.

I want / need to get another lathe when I have the money and I am more convinced than ever that I would be better off spending my money on a decent 2nd hand model than a new one. I am sure that there are exceptions but as Tam's experience shows, quality has dropped through the floor and the poor guysd who are having tos ell the rubbish in this country take the stick along with the customers.

pete

 

[CHJ]

Very frustrating, I wonder how long it takes for these quality short cuts to kill a brand.

Hope the Nova (Teknatool) brand does not go the same way as Triton.

Sales blurb and a new paint job are no substitute for quality production control, negotiated improved profit margins disappear rapidly if the product does not sell.

 

[wyngate]

Hi Guys,
thanks for the support. And Brendon, go for the Record bandsaw, I have the 300E and it is a really good machine.

For the record, I have to state that I don't have a beef with Record Power, they are a good company and they have been concerned about me. No doubt they will sort out this mess.

The biggest problem with Record is that they don't seem to have any field service, which is strange considering they sell huge industrial machines. It would be nice if a service engineer could call and look at this lathe, like when your washing machine decides to flood the kitchen.

I am an electrical engineer, I could possibly sort out this thing, but if I touch it, I could invalidate the guarantee. The first thing I would do is sling that crappy motor and put on a decent one. That motor vibrates when running without the belts on. The motor on the last Nova vibrated also. But that is not the whole problem.

Now tonight, I stuck in a piece of wood, it's the first time I have used it. Prior to this it was a case of switching on, swearing and running to get the Anadin tablets.
I thought it would be quieter because the chuck jaws would be tight and not jiggling loosely. But, it was worse. Even now, 3 hours later, I cannot believe it.

I wasn't joking about the amount of noise. It is louder than my old Toyota diesel van and I honestly believe it would drown out my bandsaw and other machines all going at once. As a comparison, I would compare it to one of those Kango demolition hammers, breaking concrete. This is why I hit the stop button and walked away. That thing is going to come apart.

I have made a little movie of the Nova in action which I will post as soon as I can. It is interesting to note, that Technatool have some promo videos on You tube for the 1624-44. There is a robotic presenter proclaiming the virtues of the lathe. I was interested because I wanted to hear what it sounded like when running. So, I sat through all the blurb, watched excitedly as the guys finger hit the start button and then.......

Amazing! As soon as he hit the button, Music. The 1624 plays music! So, you never get to hear all those sweet vibrations. On both videos, music. I wonder why? Don't they want us to hear how quite it is?
Here is a link:
http://www.youtube.com/user/TeknatoolFa ... JrJzd6HU4A

I think I am past being annoyed now. I lugged my guts out packing that other lathe to send back and busted a gut assembling this one. I had to do it on my own. Y'now how it is, the neighbours have all had hernia ops and your friends all suddenly have bad backs. I can't go through that again.

I am still wondering about that delivery guy who suggested I keep the box, so I can repack and return the new one. This is a specialist carrier used by Record, is this guy speaking from experience?

Old lathe: it vibrated but also the motor pulley locked up when pivoted over for belt changing, this made speed changing a swearing job. Record said after testing it, that the motor pulley was out of line with spindle pulley, this caused vibration and fouled the pulley cover, hence the lock-up. Now, the new lathe, to see what speed is selected, you look through little windows with the rpm maked under them. So, whatever window the belt is in, tells you the speed. Well on this lathe, it's not that simple because the belt is displaying in 2 windows at once, half in one, half in the other. This can only mean that the spindle pulley is out of alignment.

I checked the grub screw, tight, so it hadn't shifted since it left Record. I undid it, tried to move the pulley over, it wouldn't move. Now I could move it by heating the aluminium pulley with a blowtorch to expand it. But again, I could invalidate the warranty if I did this.

I actually like the Nova, it is chunky, a good robust lathe, the castings are heavy and quality. I would like to keep it rather than swap it for something else. So, why won't the damned thing work? It's not rocket science. Actually, the Saturn rocket that launched Apollo 11 to the moon, had over 3 million parts. It worked! The Nova 1624 has 3 moving parts (discounting the live tail centre), it doesn't work! All I can say, is I wouldn't like to be aboard a rocket made by Technatool. And to be honest, I don't want to be in the same garage as my Nova, that thing was really scary tonight. It's dangerous! That thing is going to disintegrate, big time, because those 2 studs holding the motor were unwinding with the vibration.

I have a 1624 - Killer Lathe!

Thanks for reading this.

Graham.

 

[CHJ]

I checked the grub screw, tight, so it hadn't shifted since it left Record. I undid it, tried to move the pulley over, it wouldn't move. Now I could move it by heating the aluminium pulley with a blowtorch to expand it. But again, I could invalidate the warranty if I did this.
Graham.

Not suggesting you even attempt to fix the piece of junk you have been supplied with, " Not Fit For Purpose, fetch it back" is all I can suggest on that score, but did the pulley by any chance have two grub screws? one over the top of the other acting as a locking.

This would be "Good Practice" in this sort of situation.

 

[duncanh]

This is a distressing tale indeed, and having paid out a fair amount of money you should obviously have satisfaction.

I'd like to see the video you took of it (I was going to say in operation, but I guess it wasn't ).

Having never had a pulley driven lathe I don't have any suggestions of what might be wrong, sorry.

Duncan

 

[Jenx]

Hi Graham ... just catching up with your tale ....
and wanted to add only the one thought..

Don't give up,


Once you get by this (un-necessary) starting hiccup, and get going 'proper' ... and by doing so, start to produce things that will firstly amaze yourself, and then family & friends, and ultimately others you've yet to meet.... the memory of this 'early problem' will have long since disappeared.

Do not.. & I cannot stress this enough, do not ... give up.



Keep us posted 8)

 

[rsser]

I recently bought a DVR XP and QC problems are similar though not as bad:

* centres out of alignment both vertically and horizontally, enough to give you oval holes when boring. Horizontal can be adjusted because the tailstock keys are screwed on, not cast. Vert will take shimming.

* Tool rest is cast iron and it had two dips in it that took half an hour of filing to level out

* The headstock swivel detent pin was bent (prob the lever was knocked in transit) and doesn't locate the headstock accurately. A replacement is being sent but fitting it is not exactly a 5 min job.

There are a range of niggling design shortcomings that I won't bore you with, but one serious one is the lack of electronic ramp-down control. It takes a middling bowl blank 40 sec to stop. That's the same time as taken when the plug is pulled so there's no braking. Frankly that's dangerous. Combine that with difficult access to the switch anyway when doing large outboard turnings and you have a machine that prob would fail an Occ Health and Safety test if used in industry.

Overall what's disappointing is that Teknatool are so unresponsive to user feedback. A remote keypad would be an essential and obvious option to offer to users, some of whom have made their own, but T/tool go their way regardless.

Complaints about their QC have risen since some manufacturing went to
China. A mate is a fitter and turner and he's looked over my lathe as well as recently made chucks and pointed out simple failures of machining that would have cost little to get right.

Their marketing claim to be driven by innovation rings hollow to me.

Down under by the time you've optioned a DVR XP up to match the specs of say the Vicmarc 175, you're in the same price range as that unit which is a far better made machine.