Northumberland is like a war zone today

[Lons]

Started on Sunday morning at 6 am with a cop copter hovering over us for about 20 minutes and then this morning the activity was unprecedented.

A couple of squad cars travelling north through the village at high speed followed by a convoy of 10 police incident vans then over the next hour, car after car after car plus helecopter.
I recon at least 30 vehicles and god knows how many more came from the north.

I'm sure you've seen Rothbury on the news today, it's about 8 miles from us and there are only 3 roads into the place. I'm sure the police are paranoid after the Cumbria shootings but seems OTT - why did they fail to act on info given when this guy left prison? Cost some poor bloke his life! :shock:

Couldn't concentrate on work so I went for a game of golf and they were checking all cars on the main road. what the hell has this country become?

Unreal :!:

 

[BradNaylor]

?????

There's an armed madman on the loose who's already shot three people and you're moaning that the police are doing everything they can to find him?

I'm no great fan of the police myself but in these circumstances I think I'd be rather reassured by their mass presence.

 

[big soft moose]

?????

There's an armed madman on the loose who's already shot three people and you're moaning that the police are doing everything they can to find him?

.

my thoughts too brad - particularly as its an armed madman who says hes "declared war" on the police and wont "stop killing them til hes dead" - in those circumstances you cant really blame them for going team handed

 

[Gary]

I'm sure the police are paranoid after the Cumbria shootings but seems OTT - why did they fail to act on info given when this guy left prison? Cost some poor bloke his life! :shock:

Why did the prison service let him out early, when he stated he would re-offend? :shock:

Couldn't concentrate on work so I went for a game of golf and they were checking all cars on the main road. what the hell has this country become?
Unreal :!:

You tell us, I mean leaving work to play golf. ](*,)

No wonder the countrys on it's knees.

 

[bugbear]

why did they fail to act on info given when this guy left prison?

If the justice system went into overdrive everytime a con said "I'm gonna' get you coppa'", they'd be in permanent overdrive!

BugBear

 

[Lons]

?????

There's an armed madman on the loose who's already shot three people and you're moaning that the police are doing everything they can to find him?

I'm no great fan of the police myself but in these circumstances I think I'd be rather reassured by their mass presence.

Sorry Brad

Wrong end of the stick! I clearly didn't express my feelings very well. #-o

This guy needs to be caught and very quickly indeed. He is unstable, high on steriods and it seems wants a gunfight and wants to be killed with as much publicity as possible.

My gripe was not with what are doing to catch him but rather that they aren't necessarily doing it efficiently. There seems to be an element of panic about it.

The car has been there for 2 days!!!
There was some intelligence suggesting he was in this area which prompted the helecopter on Sunday at 6am
The guy is most likely long gone now and probably before they got there.!
The warnings from Durham prison were ignored (Cost 1 man his life)
Moat is well known and has a well documented profile. Not his first prison sentence or the only prison he's "attended"

The excuses from the acting CI are lame and unconvincing.

I'm in the middle of it Brad and I have several good mates who are directly involved in the operation.
It isn't all seen on TV and I'll give you a specific example of OTT:-
The roundabout where he shot the policeman was closed for 36 hours and had no less than 7 vehicles in attendance - WHY? - Doesn't take that many or that much time to acertain what happened.

My other question would be, why when they are seriously short of armed responce teams, can the authorities not provide assistance to lock down an area in the form of armed soldiers?
They don't need to be an attack force just a cordon to help get this madman apprehended before he takes more lives.

You tell us, I mean leaving work to play golf.

No wonder the countrys on it's knees.

:lol: :lol: Working at home on my own extension. I work for myself anyway and do a 60 hour week. How does an afternoon off bring the country to its' knees :duno: :lol:

 

[Lons]

why did they fail to act on info given when this guy left prison?

If the justice system went into overdrive everytime a con said "I'm gonna' get you coppa'", they'd be in permanent overdrive!

BugBear

Absolutely right!

but.......

This guy has significant history which is well documented and ithe info was filtered by the prison authorities very carefully first.

Bob

 

[Mike.C]

Now they have offered a reward of £10,000 which will be paid to anyone who's information leads to his capture, and not conviction.

They have also brought in long distance rifle snipers, so it could quite easily end up with him being shot dead, which in my opinion is exactly what he wants.

Cheers

Mike

 

[matt]

I can't help thinking that whatever they're doing it's with the best of intentions/purpose. Like all things, the degrees of seperatiion from strategic decision to observer brings with it speculation and criticism. The effect is. compounded if the "observer" has contact with somone further up tree but not at the decision making level. Of course, not all decisions are correct or chosen for the right reason but it's easy and popular to speculate with a view to "knowing better". No wonder the media runs the country or decides the fate of the England manager

 

[Lons]

I can't help thinking that whatever they're doing it's with the best of intentions/purpose. Like all things, the degrees of seperatiion from strategic decision to observer brings with it speculation and criticism. The effect is. compounded if the "observer" has contact with somone further up tree but not at the decision making level. Of course, not all decisions are correct or chosen for the right reason but it's easy and popular to speculate with a view to "knowing better". No wonder the media runs the country or decides the fate of the England manager

Can't argue with that argument Matt but just occasionally the "observer" can actually have accurate information which perhaps can't be divulged in detail and therefore could have a very valid opinion.

You're right about the media as well as they're like hysterical bloodhounds and it's difficult to conduct covert operations without "letting the cat out of the bag"

The force appears to have dropped a b****** unfortunately and are now doing all in their power to get it sorted.
It is highly unlikely to end without further bloodshed. Moat is violent and deranged and unlikely to back down. He knows the area intimately from his fishing expeditions and from my own knowledge, it would be easy to get lost around there.

He has been there as they have I think found his tent but he isn't there now it seems and probably wasn't yesterday either.

The fact of the reward backs that up as does reduced police presence and significantly, the local gun shop which was very heavily guarded yesterday - now isn't!

The point everyone must agree on is that he has to be caught, alive if possible providing he is locked up forever or dead if no other choice before he takes more innocent lives.

Bob

 

[StevieB]

It isn't all seen on TV and I'll give you a specific example of OTT:-
The roundabout where he shot the policeman was closed for 36 hours and had no less than 7 vehicles in attendance - WHY? - Doesn't take that many or that much time to acertain what happened.

Umm, because its the scene of an attempted murder and it needs to be shut down for evidence collection. SOCOs need to sweep the scene, the case needs to be watertight. If he gets off on a technicality because due process was not followed then there will screams of police not doing their job properly

My other question would be, why when they are seriously short of armed responce teams, can the authorities not provide assistance to lock down an area in the form of armed soldiers?
They don't need to be an attack force just a cordon to help get this madman apprehended before he takes more lives.

How many armed soldiers (and not trigger happy moderately trained TA type soldiers) do you think we have on standby in this country? Given we are fighting two wars and have peaceful deployment in numerous other locations? Soldiers are a visible deterrent provided you abide by the law. To a madman with a gun they might as well be relabelled targets. Couple with that the need for an army chain of command and a police one, the fact the army are not trained for snatch and arrest duties adf the panic such a move would induce in the general populace and you probably have your answer.

Steve

 

[dannykaye]

some of those trigger happy moderately trained TA type soldiers are the SAS. not sure that the TA deserves the criticism.

 

[Lons]

It isn't all seen on TV and I'll give you a specific example of OTT:-
The roundabout where he shot the policeman was closed for 36 hours and had no less than 7 vehicles in attendance - WHY? - Doesn't take that many or that much time to acertain what happened.

Umm, because its the scene of an attempted murder and it needs to be shut down for evidence collection. SOCOs need to sweep the scene, the case needs to be watertight. If he gets off on a technicality because due process was not followed then there will screams of police not doing their job properly

My other question would be, why when they are seriously short of armed responce teams, can the authorities not provide assistance to lock down an area in the form of armed soldiers?
They don't need to be an attack force just a cordon to help get this madman apprehended before he takes more lives.

How many armed soldiers (and not trigger happy moderately trained TA type soldiers) do you think we have on standby in this country? Given we are fighting two wars and have peaceful deployment in numerous other locations? Soldiers are a visible deterrent provided you abide by the law. To a madman with a gun they might as well be relabelled targets. Couple with that the need for an army chain of command and a police one, the fact the army are not trained for snatch and arrest duties adf the panic such a move would induce in the general populace and you probably have your answer.

Steve

Points accepted but:

Out of 114000 regulars plus 35000 TA, I would have though sufficient to spare 50 or so to help our beleaguered police force and reasure the locals that we are somewhat safer by their presence.

As someone with my family and friends hereabouts, not many locals are sleeping peacefully at the minute, we would I feel be happier if some of them were here.

Why would soldiers be more of a target to this ***** than armed officers upon whom he has already declared war?

Scene of attempted murder.

Be honest - he isn't going to get off on any technicality - the policeman is going to survive albeit with lifetime serious injury, as is Moats' girlfriend, both eye witnesses and victims and the evidence is there of his murder of the boyfriend. His child will also have a lifelong stigma attached to contend with - poor kid Moat isn't going to get out of this alive anyway IMO.

Anyway: I probably won't comment further. tragic situation - there aren't any winners in this

Bob

 

[kmcleod]

Re using the army,,,

Not a good idea at all !

For the following reasons
- multiple chains of command, police and military authorities do not mix

- differing training, the army are trained to kill when shooting at someone, no hesitation, aim for centre of the chest and pull the trigger, within their area of operations and curcumstances absolutely the correct thing to do.
Police marksmen and weapons officers are trained to so that they are 100% sure that there is no other option possible BEFORE they pull the trigger.

As for the comment - trigger happy TA types - those trigger happy TA types currently make up something like 25-30% of the forces on the ground in Afghanistan.
They make a choice to go and soldier alongside the regular army, without all of the benefits and perks, (ask any who have been injured), and make a vital contribution to UK forces (take a look at any of the medic units,,,they are usually 40-60% TA)
So dont be so quick to belittle someone who puts his or her backside on the line.
And before it's said, yes there are a few wannabe's who want to be rambo, action man, whatever, but the vast majority just get on with it.

 

[Noel]

Re-enforcements on their way.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ire ... 539861.stm

 

[Mike.C]

Re using the army,,,

Not a good idea at all !

For the following reasons
- multiple chains of command, police and military authorities do not mix

- differing training, the army are trained to kill when shooting at someone, no hesitation, aim for centre of the chest and pull the trigger, within their area of operations and circumstances absolutely the correct thing to do.
Police marksmen and weapons officers are trained to so that they are 100% sure that there is no other option possible BEFORE they pull the trigger.

As for the comment - trigger happy TA types - those trigger happy TA types currently make up something like 25-30% of the forces on the ground in Afghanistan.
They make a choice to go and soldier alongside the regular army, without all of the benefits and perks, (ask any who have been injured), and make a vital contribution to UK forces (take a look at any of the medic units,,,they are usually 40-60% TA)
So dont be so quick to belittle someone who puts his or her backside on the line.
And before it's said, yes there are a few wannabe's who want to be rambo, action man, whatever, but the vast majority just get on with it.

Don't kid yourself mate, like their counterparts in the US, the police shoot to kill. Whether in the UK or US how many people end up wounded after a policeman shoots them? And as for police marksman and weapons officers being trained to be 100% sure before they pull the trigger tell that to the Menezes family (who had seven put in his head from close range) and the other innocent people who have been shot.

I do not for one minute underestimate the good our police forces are doing day in and day out protecting us, but plenty of mistakes have been made, and it just gets me when someone is blind to that.

As for our soldiers I am 100% behind the fine job that they do, but putting them on the streets would IMHO be an unwise move. After all the police are after one man, and they have enough marksmen to deal with him.

Cheers

Mike

 

[kmcleod]

Demenzes wasn't shot by the police

Take a look at the film of the so called armed officers,,,they are carrying Heckler and Koch G3 rifles - not something the Met Police are armed with. They use either HK G63 or HK MP5 - completely different.

Most likely he was killed by part of the security services, not the police, as they are trained to go for head shots, which Police and Army are both not.
(read - The Operators: Inside 14 Intelligence Company, sheds some interesting light on what our intelligence services do)

And the most likely explanation for it - he was in the wrong place at the wrong time - he bore a passing resemblance to the terror suspect living next door, and people over reacted.
But given what had happened the week before - hardly surprising.

I do not disagree that the police are trained to shoot to kill, but only after checking the alternatives, even then, the UK still has one of the lowest police shooting rates of any country in Europe, and massively lower than either the USA or Canada.

So bottom line - let the police do the policing, and let the army do the soldiering,,,each to their own.

 

[Mike.C]

Demenzes wasn't shot by the police

Take a look at the film of the so called armed officers,,,they are carrying Heckler and Koch G3 rifles - not something the Met Police are armed with. They use either HK G63 or HK MP5 - completely different.

Most likely he was killed by part of the security services, not the police, as they are trained to go for head shots, which Police and Army are both not.
(read - The Operators: Inside 14 Intelligence Company, sheds some interesting light on what our intelligence services do)

And the most likely explanation for it - he was in the wrong place at the wrong time - he bore a passing resemblance to the terror suspect living next door, and people over reacted.
But given what had happened the week before - hardly surprising.

I do not disagree that the police are trained to shoot to kill, but only after checking the alternatives, even then, the UK still has one of the lowest police shooting rates of any country in Europe, and massively lower than either the USA or Canada.

So bottom line - let the police do the policing, and let the army do the soldiering,,,each to their own.

I was going to name others that have been shot by the police, but as you admit that they are trained to shoot to kill it is hardly worth it.

I do see your point about Demenzes and your right about the police shooting rates, at least compared to the US and Canada.

Cheers

Mike

 

[Max Power]

For a man with no military training and the IQ of a bouncer he's certainly giving the plods the runaround, Rambo couldnt have done better.

 

[RogerS]

For a man with no military training and the IQ of a bouncer he's certainly giving the plods the runaround, Rambo couldnt have done better.

Why? Have you looked at the countryside around there? It's pretty empty and bleak.