Newbie wood-worker buying wood: I don’t know what to ask for!

[DoubleDutch1962]

I did search the forum but couldn't find a clear answer, so I apologize if this has been asked before.


The below picture is an example but hopefully, it clarifies my question. I want to build a (e.g.) Teak wooden bench. I have detailed drawings (as opposed to the example below), which result in 5 slats (back and seat) on either side

• a back/leg,
• a seat bit and
• a front leg. 



Clearly, I have no idea how wide the (Teak) tree is the merchant can supply and to make things a bit more complicated: the slats and sides are of different thicknesses (2 and 3 cm in this example)
I have a table saw and router/planer and want to use them (it's about learning). A wood merchant about 10 miles from me stocks teak.

So the question: I want to ask him for a quote without looking stupid but what's the wood size I'm going to ask for?

You don't have to calculate it but if you could tell me HOW to calculate it I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

Depending on the timber merchant you need to be clear what they are selling and whether they will machine the wood for you (if needed).

The process starts with slices from a tree complete with bark. Once seasoned this will typically be sawn into long boards with standard dimensions. It will then need to be planed to final dimensions.

At each stage the dimensions will "shrink" as it is processed and waste created.

It very much depends on how much of the processing you want (or are able) to do yourself. Were it a project of mine I would seek to buy sawn timber at (say) 35mm thick and plane to size for the frame, and 25mm for the slats.

The slats at 20cm wide and the sides at 35cm may be wider than the timber merchant can provide - you may need to modify the design or join two or more pieces.

 

[DoubleDutch1962]

Depending on the timber merchant you need to be clear what they are selling and whether they will machine the wood for you (if needed).

The process starts with slices from a tree complete with bark. Once seasoned this will typically be sawn into long boards with standard dimensions. It will then need to be planed to final dimensions.

At each stage the dimensions will "shrink" as it is processed and waste created.

It very much depends on how much of the processing you want (or are able) to do yourself. Were it a project of mine I would seek to buy sawn timber at (say) 35mm thick and plane to size for the frame, and 25mm for the slats.

The slats at 20cm wide and the sides at 35cm may be wider than the timber merchant can provide - you may need to modify the design or join two or more pieces.

Thank you Terry that's really useful. You say "Standard Dimension" could you give some guidance on that as that would really help answer my question I think?

 

[Terry - Somerset]

"Standard" does not mean a documented (AFAIK) "British Standard". Standard timber sizes are partly an imperial measure legacy and a benefit for transport, pricing, and storage.

A few timber merchants will cut and plane to precise sizes, most will mill or buy in timber at standard lengths (eg: 1.8m, 2.4m) and thickness (eg: 25mm, 50mm). Again you need to talk to the timber merchant.

If they stock "standard" sizes only it is up to you to decide what of each size you want - there may be a trade off between wastage, effort required to cut and plane to the plan sizes, or modify the plan to best use the dimensions available.

Example - if the teak was only available in 25mm or 50mm thicknesses you could:

• reduce the frame from 30mm to 25mm (cheaper), or
• buy 50mm and plane down to 30mm (more expense and effort) or
• simply use at 50mm.

All down to aesthetics, structural integrity, and whether you prefer to follow a precise design.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

You're a beginner - don't even think of doing it in teak.

 

[Delaney]

It all depends on the size of your merchant and their ability.
logs when cut (tree trunks/branches), can come in many thicknesses. Common ones are
20, 30, 40 etc..(mm)
the width depends on the trunk width or branch width. Usual widths are about 250 - 450mm
What you want to know is the price per metre square. You can then compare different wood prices if you decide teak is too expensive.
Plain Sycamore for example should be about £60 per m2. Teak I imagine would be much more.
I’m sure the salesmen there would be happy to help you; that is their job.
Bare in mind just selling wood is likely a bit dull. Helping someone with a project is probably more satisfying and so why not excite them with your new project and allow them to feel great about helping you with it?
You may find they have some great ideas that will make the job much easier and more successful.

Good luck

 

[HOJ]

Sawn timber is generally sold by volume, measured in cubic meters or cubic feet.

In your case you multiply all your dimension together, for instance your seat slats will be, in cubic meters, 2 x 0.2 x .02 = 0.008 M3 each.

Your supplier will be able to give you a unit rate per M3, which will convert to a volume value in this case if the timber is a £1000.00 M3 you will pay 1000.00 x .008 = £8.

This is a simple calculation and in no way represents the price you will pay as there is no allowance for the size of board you will have to buy to get your parts from or the factual price per M3

The supplier may only have boards 2.4m in length and 0.5m wide, and in thicknesses of, possibly 27, 32, 41, & 52mm (based on imperial sawn sizes) so you will be buying that board and not a piece of it, so you numbers will now be 2.4 x .5 x 0.027 = 0.0324 @ £1000.00 M3 = £32.40 giving you waste of 0.0247 M3 which works out at £24.70.

You need to establish the available stock sizes and then ***** how to get your pieces out of it, economically.

I do note though that your side and leg pieces are very wide, will they not look odd, perhaps if you show you full design we can better understand it.

 

[Delaney]

Sawn timber is generally sold by volume, measured in cubic meters or cubic feet.

In your case you multiply all your dimension together, for instance your seat slats will be, in cubic meters, 2 x 0.2 x .02 = 0.008 M3 each.

Your supplier will be able to give you a unit rate per M3, which will convert to a volume value in this case if the timber is a £1000.00 M3 you will pay 1000.00 x .008 = £8.

This is a simple calculation and in no way represents the price you will pay as there is no allowance for the size of board you will have to buy to get your parts from or the factual price per M3

The supplier may only have boards 2.4m in length and 0.5m wide, and in thicknesses of, possibly 27, 32, 41, & 52mm (based on imperial sawn sizes) so you will be buying that board and not a piece of it, so you numbers will now be 2.4 x .5 x 0.027 = 0.0324 @ £1000.00 M3 = £32.40 giving you waste of 0.0247 M3 which works out at £24.70.

You need to establish the available stock sizes and then ***** how to get your pieces out of it, economically.

I do note though that your side and leg pieces are very wide, will they not look odd, perhaps if you show you full design we can better understand it.

To correct my initial comment.
It is m3 not m2 and the thicknesses’s 27,32,41,52mm are correct.
I couldn’t remember the exact sizes so gave rough ones.
Everything HOJ is exactly as you would expect to find.

 

[DoubleDutch1962]

Thank you all this has been really helpful!

 

[DoubleDutch1962]

Sawn timber is generally sold by volume, measured in cubic meters or cubic feet.

In your case you multiply all your dimension together, for instance your seat slats will be, in cubic meters, 2 x 0.2 x .02 = 0.008 M3 each.

Your supplier will be able to give you a unit rate per M3, which will convert to a volume value in this case if the timber is a £1000.00 M3 you will pay 1000.00 x .008 = £8.

This is a simple calculation and in no way represents the price you will pay as there is no allowance for the size of board you will have to buy to get your parts from or the factual price per M3

The supplier may only have boards 2.4m in length and 0.5m wide, and in thicknesses of, possibly 27, 32, 41, & 52mm (based on imperial sawn sizes) so you will be buying that board and not a piece of it, so you numbers will now be 2.4 x .5 x 0.027 = 0.0324 @ £1000.00 M3 = £32.40 giving you waste of 0.0247 M3 which works out at £24.70.

You need to establish the available stock sizes and then ***** how to get your pieces out of it, economically.

I do note though that your side and leg pieces are very wide, will they not look odd, perhaps if you show you full design we can better understand it.

Thank you, this is unbelievably helpful and fully answers my question I think. About the legs: completely made this up as an example which thought was easier to answer the question so the final design should (....) look fantastic but that will mostly depend on my skills (emerging) skills

 

[Jester129]

Phil Pascoe is right. Teak is incredibly expensive and if you make just one mistake..... You need to make it from cls for a start, so that you can practice on a much cheaper alternative. Google cls wood to find out more. Take this as good advice PLEASE!

 

[DoubleDutch1962]

Phil Pascoe is right. Teak is incredibly expensive and if you make just one mistake..... You need to make it from cls for a start, so that you can practice on a much cheaper alternative. Google cls wood to find out more. Take this as good advice PLEASE!

Your advise and others advice on not using Teak will absolutely be followed! I didn't know that price was the issue as it wasn't clear from the above post and my skills don't deserve massively expensive wood yet.

Will search for "cls wood" (no idea what I will find ) but what would the experts recommend I use? I would love to use something besides softwood/pine that is a bit more challenging to work with

 

[Phil Pascoe]

If you feel inclined to spend the money, look into doing it in iroko. Beastly stuff to work but very weather resistant and much cheaper than teak. When you find out how it'll cost in iroko you'll realise why we said don't do it in teak.

 

[HOJ]

Will search for "cls wood" (no idea what I will find ) but what would the experts recommend I use?

Why don't you nip over to the wood yard and have a look around, and find out what they offer, as in species, sizes and prices, then when you've got up off the floor...

I would suggest the best option will be to buy some joinery grade unsorted redwood, which will be available in a wide range of sizes i.e. 12" x 4" SE planks (presuming you can further machine it to finished size) to get a basic idea of your proposed designs viability.

CLS (Canadian Lumber Standard) is basically construction timber, pre machined/regularised to a given size, more for making stud walls etc, and sold by most of the DIY retailers, so in my opinion not an ideal choice, to be honest.

 

[imageel]

CLS is Canadian Lumber Standard, and whilst no doubt there are lots of detailed specs, the only noticeable difference you'll visibly notice is that it has radiused edges - so a bit kinder on the pinkies.. Aside from that it is softwood commonly pine, fir or spruce so pretty soft in comparison to say teak

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I've only seen CLS in spruce. The rounded edges make it difficult to mark joints without a stepover square.