New Year, new Bandsaw!

[vaj]

There's misalignments and inability to handle cutting and blade tension loads I guess TT.

I was surprised at how well aligned the wheels on the Agazzani were, in that I've experienced others that were not so.

The makers of many low cost saws as before rely heavily on lots of camber to keep the blade on the wheels despite misalignments - there's even one guru that advises that coplanarity/alignment of the lower wheel doesn't matter since (it seems) top wheel tilt sorts out everything.

It perhaps does within the pretty wide limits in terms of just with lots of camber keeping the blade on the wheels, but it likely risks unstable tracking with many factors fighting each other to find a balance...

 

[Ttrees]

I agree, having cambered wheels or tires can certainly hide issues,
but those issues may bite one in the behind if neglected.
Worn wheel bores isn't something I'd be optimistic about fixing myself, that is ..compared to any other faffery.

 

[vaj]

The video seems a bit clueless TT.

The outer race of the bearing should be a shrink fit in the wheel and consequently a tight fit. There shouldn't be any wear in the wheel hub bore.

The chances are that the wheel bore was either wrongly machined (the bore was a hair too large) or the original bearing seized and spun in it. If the fresh looking bearing shown is the original then it's very possible that the bore was machined well oversize from new - a warranty problem. It'd be wise to check the other wheel too...

The guy posting the video is heavy on cool sounding vocals but doesn't seem to realise that the bearing should not spin in the hub bore.

It's tough to get properly back from that by means other than replacement of the wheel.

Presuming that the bore remains concentric and regular one DIY option is to pop the bore surface with a punch to raise dimples to tighten the fit/centre the bearing, and to then press the bearing in (off the outer race) with a gap filling anaerobic retaining adhesive all around. (similar to the e.g. Loctite thread lockers, but doped for gap filling)

Brass shim of carefully chosen thickness can also be used to centre the bearing, but would trigger a very fast cure in the adhesive so the bearing would need to be pressed in with no delay.

Fixes of this sort may hold up or may not - the bearing has anyway got to be accurately centred to ensure that it causes no wobble or runout.

The real fix is a new wheel or a competent machine shop rebore for a shrink fitted sleeve or for a bearing with a larger race OD? (if there's a suitable size made)

 

[scubadoo]

As someone new to bandsaws, with no 16 amp sockets and not much space or height in the workshop, I went with the Laguna 14BX. Spent years saving and deciding. If I had more experience or fettling skills, more space or the ability to move heavier saws on my own i would have explored bigger second hand machines but for my needs i think this saw is going to be great. Obviously expensive and yes i would have liked a Hammer N4400 but this saw rips very nicely. I was also considering the iTech, some of the Axi trade models and the Sabres to name a few.

Like i said, never used a bandsaw or standard bearings but the ceramic bearings on the Laguna seem very simple to set.

Obviously defer to the more experienced bandsawers like Ttress etc but though I could add some thoughts.

 

[vaj]

A quick look S suggests that the 14BX is one of the new generation - a beefed up version of their 14in saw which targets improved resaw ability. Laguna have long catered to the resaw requirement and must know what they are doing by now so it should indeed be fine.

This kind of saw was only just starting to become available in the US when I bougth the Agazzani, it wasn't available here in Europe at all.

They say it can run their Resaw King blade which by all acounts delivers similar resaw capability to the Lenox blades but is happy on the smaller wheels. They also specifically claim it can resaw up to 13in - which is good because in the case of marginal saws the makers tend to imply this sort of capability but to avoid commitment by waffling about clearance under the guides.

It's seems to be a highly specced and very nice looking saw.

It'd be interesting to hear what sort of camber the wheels have, and what the blade speed is. Also how you get on when set up.

Bigger isn't necessarily better - it just depends on the mix of user requirements.

It's likely to be more versatile and convenient when running narrow blades, and as you say has the big advantage of being a plug and play job.

If as is pretty certain to be the case it's stiff enough to consistently resaw the thickness and wood types you need without tracking and/or vibration and/or fussy set up problems then going larger in resaw terms would only deliver at best the possibility of (but not guaranteed - depends on the specifics of the saw) a faster cut, some extra depth of cut and more blade to column/width capacity.

The real problems arise as before where resawing is concerned is with saws which are too lightly built to handle the loads involved in the required resawing tasks - the very existence of this specification of saw and its price point make clear that the capability is far from universal...

 

[Ttrees]

As someone new to bandsaws, with no 16 amp sockets and not much space or height in the workshop, I went with the Laguna 14BX. Spent years saving and deciding. If I had more experience or fettling skills, more space or the ability to move heavier saws on my own i would have explored bigger second hand machines but for my needs i think this saw is going to be great. Obviously expensive and yes i would have liked a Hammer N4400 but this saw rips very nicely. I was also considering the iTech, some of the Axi trade models and the Sabres to name a few.

Like i said, never used a bandsaw or standard bearings but the ceramic bearings on the Laguna seem very simple to set.

Obviously defer to the more experienced bandsawers like Ttress etc but though I could add some thoughts.

I had to laugh, I'll bet near everyone has more experience on a bandsaw than I do, well actually using one that is.

Though if someone is considering getting a larger second hand machine I could go on,
so I suppose I can confidently say I'm an experienced writer on the subject regarding some issues concerning the practicality aspect, should the size of the machine, or the 16a power supply be of concern, I've wrote at length before about the easiest way to tip a machine,
i.e table off, and lifting the front i.e guidepost end off the ground, before tipping.
Just a joke piccy, sorry I don't have a better one assembled, and no laying the column(i.e spine) of the machine down onto a bearer which is centered (i.e causing a see saw effect) so make sure the bearer that the machine lays down on is on the far end,
i.e the base providing the lateral stability whilst lying down, the hefty bearer/thick fence post on the other end.

And regarding the power requirements needed on larger single phase machines,
one can opt for 3 phase instead, (regarding most modern machinery this is)
If doing so on a shoe string, highly advised to make sure these are dual voltage motors,
see 240v on the name plate, alongside the dual voltage symbols, (I'll not clog post with pics)

Going the three phase route, looking for something like 3hp which can run on 240v delta (thats low voltage) then VFD's are only a hundred quid,
Get something else, i.e not dual voltage and is star wound 380/400v only,
or something greater horsepower than 3hp, and the price may go up.

A hundred quid isn't that great of a cost, that is if one has time or is thrifty there's nothing more than another 20 quid involved.

Anyways, just saying one could get by with the 13a supply by doing so,
as the VFD provides soft start (adjustable to suit you sir)
which is what the single phase machines won't provide, and thus trip the breaker/blow the fuse with the split second oomph needed.
There's large capacitors to make it real easy for the supply,
you'd better know they store lethal charge even after unplugging for some time,
Make a metal box for the things and play by the rules, it ain't difficult to learn this stuff,
always folks on hand for that advise.

Just sayin, should the perfect machine be round the corner, and can be tested.
All the best

Tom

 

[Ttrees]

The real fix is a new wheel or a competent machine shop rebore for a shrink fitted sleeve or for a bearing with a larger race OD? (if there's a suitable size made)

Yes, the fix for that for sure,
but that's not to say the machine is surely fixed because of this.

I've seen a similar video before, with the exact same problem,
and have a few other photos of bore wear, which seemingly to me is not necessarily a manufacturing defect.

Going to extreme side of the spectrum..
Here's a Centauro which has had a hard time of it,
You won't see too many of these with the washer offset.

I might try finding a few more to show this isn't a totally rare occurrence.

Tom

 

[sams93]

Don't know if it is of interest but there is a Hammer N4400 on facebook in what looks like very good condition for £1500 (although i'm sure you could negotiate down)

Log into Facebook

 

[heimlaga]

Yes, the fix for that for sure,
but that's not to say the machine is surely fixed because of this.

I've seen a similar video before, with the exact same problem,
and have a few other photos of bore wear, which seemingly to me is not necessarily a manufacturing defect.

Going to extreme side of the spectrum..
Here's a Centauro which has had a hard time of it,
You won't see too many of these with the washer offset.
View attachment 151155View attachment 151156

I might try finding a few more to show this isn't a totally rare occurrence.

Tom

I suspect the bearing in that one may be bad enough that the cage is failing and the balls running wild. That is what I usually find when something looks like that.

My Beronius has had the upper wheel hub sleeved in the distant past. It may have been done because some of those very early ball bearings did not comply with modern standard sizes when bearing sizes were standardized in the 1920-ies or thereabout. The housing for the lower shaft bearings is also sleeved.
Anyway the bearing should always have more or less of a press fit in the wheel.

In my experience bore wear is generally is caused by either of three reasons:
-Two grooved ball bearings not being perfectly lined up. A typical manufacturing error. This is the reason why I love spherical self aligning bearings.
-Bearing breakdown when the failing bearing walows out the housing. This is the reason why I am quick to replace suspicious bearings and why I take care to lubricate everything.
-A bent shaft bringing everything out of alignment.

 

[Ttrees]

In my experience bore wear is generally is caused by either of three reasons:

-Bearing breakdown when the failing bearing walows out the housing. This is the reason why I am quick to replace suspicious bearings and why I take care to lubricate everything.

That's what I was suggesting was the issue with the Centauro with the PTO.
There's another thread on TWH2 where someone had to get a sleeve in their lower wheel,
and no apparent damage to anything else.
Perhaps the bearing simply froze, I would still question why though.

There's also other things from many machines which suggest things may be amiss concerning alignment, such as smaller drive wheels on some but not others of the same model, and some other niggles,
so am guessing it's still a bit of a gamble with any machine today, be it new or used.

It's not like you won't come across many folks having issues with their bandsaw,
likely more so than most machines, omitting anything but sensible usage of course.

And then there's the issue of subjective matters, i.e how good one will settle for,
I've seen fairly equivalent machines seemingly differ quite a bit in this regard,
i.e a good saw of any size shouldn't have to edit the video during the cut.

One could speculate as to why, my hunch from experimentation with tire profiling
is that misalignments suck a whole lot of power from the machine,
and now everything is more or less rigid, and tires properly conditioned,
it seems to have had less power than before.
I'll be interested to cut the same stick again soon to see the difference.

Tom

 

[Kev]

+1 for the Hammer 4400. Great machine in my opinion. Use mine for various tasks and always delivers. Would recommend the blade guides upgrade (ceramic) although not has experience of the ones they come with as standard to be fair. There is one for sale at moment on here.

hope this helps a little!