New turner: JET JWL-1221VS and other questions

[sploo]

I've recently done a day's beginner course with Steve Giles (which I can highly recommend) and it's whet my appetite for finally buying a lathe.

My primary interest would be bowl turning, but being realistic (both in terms of space and talent) a lathe that can turn really large bowls is not on the cards.

Steve (and indeed my local woodturning club) seem to like Jet's range, and I was looking at the Jet JWL-1015VS. I could stretch to the 1221VS, which would double the motor power (1hp vs 1/2hp) and give me an increased diameter capacity (318mm vs 254mm).

Should I be considering any other alternatives to the 1221VS? The Axminster AT1416VS is in the ballpark on price and size, but I don't know how they compare in terms of quality and use.

I probably wouldn't go second hand, as I lack the experience to spot what's good/bad/faulty/missing.

For the moment I'm assuming that a mid-sized 4 jaw chuck would also be a good investment. Could anyone recommend good options (and what jaws I should use for basic bowls)? I assume I'd also need a face plate ring?

Finally, Steve's instruction has given me some basic understanding of safe tool handling, but I'd be interested in a book (or other source) that might illustrate how to present different tools to the work piece, the correct "movement" with the tool, and what tool should (or shouldn't) be used for specific jobs. We did go over this a bit, but my memory could be better!

 

[themackay]

I have the Jet 1221 vs and its an excellent lathe in my opinion Axminster have £60 odd off just nowMy woodturning club bought 2 a couple of weeks ago and SK100 starter kit chuck package which gives you a faceplate and screw chuck

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

I agree....you cant go wrong with the Jets......they're excellent lathes all round. For the chuck, I don't think you can beat the Axy Evolution range. I've just bought the big daddy ie the evolution not the SK's and its superb. They're not the cheapest but they take some beating because they're milled out of a solid block of stainless steel which means they're as concentric as you're ever going to get. Also made in devon with British engineering so quality control is tip top and even if something fails, you've got the Axy backup post sale.

Their jaw range is huge and flexible and one of the things I really like is you can go and see them in store. Try doing that with Sorby or Vicmarc! You may have to travel hundreds of miles to actually see their range in the flesh. The 2 smaller SK range are also excellent chucks. You might like to think about the middle one (SK100)

 

[Sheptonphil]

I started with the Axminster 1416vs. What swung it for me as against the Jet, was the motor is a three phase induction motor through an inverter rather than a dc motor. Run off normal 13a plug. Better motor, quieter, more power torque at low revs. The build quality was superb. I made 13.5 inch bowls on it and every thing down to 25 mm segmented pill boxes. George fowraker uses more than one of them for tuition.

You can get a chuck deal with it just for the asking, if you are a club member, ask for the club discount. I had the k100 chuck, now the sk100, a perfectly good chuck. still use three of them along with a couple of evolutions.

You wouldn't be disappointed.

Phil

 

[sploo]

Thanks for the responses - positive info about the Jets, but an excellent point about the motor. I was looking at the manual for the 1221VS and was surprised to see instructions for brush changing (I'd assumed it was induction). I'll see if my local Axminster has the two models in stock so I can go and have a prod.

Bob - how does the Evolution chuck compare to the SK100? Is it just a quality thing? I see it's more substantial, and for a set of Type C jaws (a sensible starting point, I assume) it's about an £80 premium over the SK100.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

Not so much quality because the entire range including the SK 3 and 4" models are very good. It's just about weight and capacity. The evolution takes the largest jaws and is designed for bigger heavier work. It can handle a 20" bowl or substantial hollow forms ie it has the scope to manage these larger blanks. I used Nova chucks before and frankly they're toys by comparison.

The reason I mentioned the SK100 might be about the right size was based on the lathe spec you discussed. You're in the midi category there and the SK100 is the middle of the chuck range. Still small enough to get close to the end of the blank but big enough to handle the bowl capacities you mentioned whereas the 80 is more for mini lathes and associated capacities.

One thing I strongly urge you consider is to buy spare carrier sets for each set of jaws you buy. You then permanently mount the jaws in the carriers and when you come to change jaws you just wind them straight off the chuck and slide on the new ones. No undoing allen bolts and losing them in the shavings under the lathe. Takes minutes and you're good to go. Again at £30 a set of carriers, cheap it's not, but efficient it is

 

[Sheptonphil]

The Evolution is a breed apart from the sk. I have used the clubman range on the 1416 and 1628 Axminster lathes just fine. If anything I think the Evolution is an overkill chuck for the 1416. It really is considerably heavier than the SK. It is a superb piece of engineering but you will not do anything with an evolution you won't do with an sk on either the 1416 or 1221 lathes. If you have the cash to spare you will love the quality of the Evo, but you won't improve your turning, and you could put the extra to the rest of the kit you haven't realised you need yet.

The Axi also has a remote speed and power box, a really useful feature, but it's still the far superior 1hp 3 phase motor that should sway it. The Dc motor sounds like a bag of nails in comparison. Try them both in store.

Phil

 

[sploo]

Thanks Phil. Very useful info!

 

[Robbo3]

I recently went to the High Wycombe branch of Axminster Tools with another turner contemplating upgrading his lathe from one of the chinese clones - a SIP machine IIRC, bought from a forum member & still going strong, but as he had access to larger pieces of timber than the lathe could handle the urge to upgrade was strong.
He was undecided between several of the mid range (not midi) Jet machines & the Axminster AT1628VS, hence the viewing trip. It's not until you see these machines side by side that you notice the similarities rather than the differences. Then you look at the prices & wonder why the Jet lathes are £1000 & £2000 more expensive.
He would probably outgrow the AT1628VS in a year or so & then he would be looking to upgrade again, so my advice was to look at the Record Maxi with the M33 headstock at £1900 as probably the best value for money for his needs.

Sploo, you are welcome to come & have a play on my AT1628VS or Draper mini lathe. I also have a variety of Axminster & Rutland chucks, jaws & fittings.

As to motor power, I have as much fun with a bowl on my 1/3hp mini lathe, taking light cuts so as not to stall the motor as I do taming an unbalanced chunk of wood on the large lathe. The only time I find the small lathe is really under powered is when drilling into end grain with a 30mm+ forstner bit.

 

[sploo]

Robbo - many thanks for the extra info and offer.

I visited Axminster in Basingstoke this evening and got a good look at the Jet 1221VS and Axminster 1416VS. I have to admit my instant impression was that they're tiny and look like toys, and certainly they're more alike than different.

I couldn't identify any difference in apparent casting or build quality between the two, though the Jet is the more aesthetic design to my eyes. The inverter hanging off the back of the Axminster is also ugly and wasteful in space terms (it appears most of the electronics on the Jet are tucked underneath the bed).

The control box on the Axy felt much better quality than the Jet - the speed control dial in particular was already wobbly on the Jet.

Firing both machines up, I have to say the Jet was impressively quiet for a brushed motor, but it definitely has a subdued hairdryer tone. The Axy by comparison is nearly silent.

Fortunately one of the staff on this evening is a turner, and owns the Axy. He didn't try to push me either way, but confirmed Phil and Bob's comments that the SK114 chuck is superb, but unnecessary for that size of lathe. The SK100 starter set / package would make sense then. Oddly, Axy's site lists the SK114 as out of stock, and "Online exclusive, not stocked in store"... but they had plenty in store!

I was looking at the Crown Cryo set (http://www.axminster.co.uk/crown-cryo-t ... set-211384), but confirmed something mentioned in the review - for some reason, the included bowl gouge is much shorter than the one you'd get if buying separately.

I think it would be the Axy 1416VS then, but I need to get my head around paying £700 for something that tiny! I've just got to convince myself that size and quality are not the same thing, and besides, I wouldn't have room for a 1628VS (and I suspect I should actually learn to turn before trying something really large).

 

[Sheptonphil]

I made the mistake of under buying in the first instance. I started on the 1416 and 18 months later sold it and bought the 1628. At least buying quality kit makes it very easy to sell without loosing too much, but there was still a deficit.

You know you can fit the 1628 in if you shuffle things around a bit, either floor or bench mounted. :lol:

You won't be very far down the road when you want to turn that little bit bigger, that little bit longer, or that little bit more out of balance where a bit more mass would help.

I had a 'retirement looming' upgrade present and went for the jet 3520 as a worksop rearrangement meant I needed to remove the lathe from the bench and floor mount it. I could have ordered the leg set but instead got a good deal on the 3520. My 1628 sold in three days and because the retail cost had gone up by £300 between me buying and selling, I got all my purchase price back.

I still haven't turned more than a couple of things on the 3520 I couldn't have done on the 1628, but this was a once only offer for me, so I have this one now for the rest of my turning days.

It does mean though that the 1628 is of such a size and capability that for most, if would be a forever lathe and is really the way I should have gone first. It's happy doing pens or bowls, boxes or candle sticks to its full stated capacity.

The 1416 is quality, it just doesn't look like £700 worth. It is still now the lathe I could have produced probably 80% of my total turnings since starting out, the 1628 another 19%.

See if you can get real hands on experience with both first if you can, it may just swing it one way or the other.

Phil

 

[sploo]

I really - actually - couldn't fit the 1628 in my garage. The 1416 will just about be feasible if I sacrifice some bench space. My work space is so small I had to build my own dust extraction ducting from scratch, so that I didn't bang my head on it. There's a lot of "inventive" organisation going on for what's packed into a small space :wink:

Because I'm interested in bowls, the 1628 isn't actually that much "bigger" (350mm diameter vs 406mm) - unless you slide the headstock to the end and add the bed extension; but then it'd be massively too long (and would need the stand, rather than putting it on a bench).

If I had the space I might just have considered it, but as you say - 80% of what you've done could be done with the 1416. I'm a totally new turner, so I suspect I should do some learning before I tried to "go big".

TBH I've settled on the 1416, the chuck, an initial selection of tools, and the sharpening method. At the moment I think I'm stalling because I've got loads of ideas for projects but I'm worried I'll get a lathe and find I completely suck at turning!

EDIT: That Jet 3520 looks like a monster

 

[Sheptonphil]

You won't be disappointed in learning to turn on it, beautifully controllable power.

Phil

 

[sploo]

You won't be disappointed in learning to turn on it, beautifully controllable power.

Just enough to put a handle through my teeth when I do something dumb :mrgreen:

(I will be wearing full face protection, and I'm reading up/watching videos to help me understand what causes catches)

 

[Grahamshed]

Hi Sploo.
Which club do you belong to ? If it is the Didcot one we have a stand at the Didcot Fayre this Saturday and I can bring you a copy of the Keith Rowley book that everyone says is the best training aid.

I think you have probably made the best choice of lathe and chuck though its a pity you are short of space, the Jet 3520 is great.

 

[sploo]

Hi Sploo.
Which club do you belong to ? If it is the Didcot one we have a stand at the Didcot Fayre this Saturday and I can bring you a copy of the Keith Rowley book that everyone says is the best training aid.

I think you have probably made the best choice of lathe and chuck though its a pity you are short of space, the Jet 3520 is great.

Graham - I've gatecrashed Didcot a couple of times (I really should join - assuming I can get the time to attend). In the short time I've been it's become very obvious that it's a really good group, with a very good bunch of guys.

I ordered Rowley's book a couple of days ago. I got the impression from online reviews (and a quick flick through it at Axminster) that it looks good - so it's useful to know it's widely considered to be the one to get.

I'll bet the Jet 3520 is special. I'll start sensible though!

 

[sploo]

Right, I think I heard my wallet scream...

I've ordered the AT1416VS.

Although my plan is more for bowls than spindles (so I've ordered a 3/8" bowl gouge), I've also added a 3/4" roughing, 3/8" spindle and 3/16" diamond parting gouge. No scrapers or skew chisels yet.

I've also added some sanding pads and discs, and the SK100 starter chuck set.

I have the Trend Airshield, but I've also ordered the FM952 Safety Visor.

I'm going to look into a Sorby ProEdge separately.

I'm assuming I may later add another 3/8" bowl gouge for a longer fingernail grind.

Is there anything obvious I've missed?

 

[woodpig]

I was the opposite to Phil, I over bought a large lathe and found it was a pain to set up in three successive house moves. It was just too big. I sold it and bought the AT1416VS. Very quiet and smooth and it has a good bowl capacity for a small lathe. The tail stock design is inspired in my view as its so easy to remove single handed!

 

[sploo]

I was the opposite to Phil, I over bought a large lathe and found it was a pain to set up in three successive house moves. It was just too big. I sold it and bought the AT1416VS. Very quiet and smooth and it has a good bowl capacity for a small lathe. The tail stock design is inspired in my view as its so easy to remove single handed!

I hadn't thought about the tailstock in that way

Good to hear you're happy with the 1416 though.

Maybe in the future if I really get into it (and also end up with more workshop space - we have a house move on the cards) then I might look into the Axminster 1628.

 

[Robbo3]

I think you will get a lot of enjoyment from the 1416VS - probably the best lathe in its class.
In addition, M33 & 2MT are gradually becoming the standard so are likely to save you money if you decide to upgrade.
The main thing to do, is have fun.