New table saw - American or UK?

[LarryG]

I'm in the process of moving from US to UK, and it's also time to upgrade my tablesaw, I think. I've 'made do' so far on a Dewalt contractor-grade saw, which is good as contractor-grade saws go, since it has a large cast iron table, and i've upgraded it with a nice Biesmeyer fence and added an integrated router table to the right. It's served me pretty well, and I've built some nice cabinetry out of it, but the external belt-drive 1 1/2 hp motor and total lack of dust control plus overall lightweight construction and lack of adjustability has me coveting something a bit better, and in the nature of a cabinet style saw.

So I can either buy one in the US, use it a little while before we move, and ship it over with the rest of the household goods (= little if any extra shipping cost), OR I can wait and buy one in the UK.

Before the UK move came up, I've had my eye on a Sawstop cabinet saw; the ones that would probably fit my needs best is about US$3000-4000. The safety factor of the Sawstop is one motivation, but not necessarily the primary one - I agree with the other threads that technology is the last line of defense in safety - proper usage is the first - but having that last line of defense is pretty nice. But as the Sawstops have evolved over the last few years, they've become a really top quality saw in their own right, regardless of the extra safety factor. I've read the threads on using US motors on UK power, and it's definitely a consideration, but I'm planning to bring several other 110v/60hz machines and will probably fit my shop out with dual wiring for 110v and 240v.

But I'm also intrigued by the sliding table style saw - they basically don't exist in the US, at least in the amateur woodworking shop, and not even in any trade shops I know. They seem to offer better control and precision, and seem to be pretty well equipped. And cost-wise they're comparable to what I'd pay for the SawStop. But I'd definitely want to see some in person before making the decision, and i haven't been able to find a store that carries a wide range. There's an Axminster store in Sittingbourne about an hour's drive from where I am (Essex), and they've got their own brand, Jet, Bosch and Sedgwick, but no Scheppach, Hammer, Felder, SIP etc. So lots to learn and investigate for me!

I've been reading a few threads here but would appreciate thoughts - buy US or buy UK?

Thanks from a new member to the forum!

 

[pike]

I'd be wondering if Sawstop ship at reasonable costs to the UK if you need any spare parts?

Welcome to the forum and the UK!

 

[sunnybob]

UK supply is 220 volts 50 htz. I believe the htz difference will screw up any electronic speed controls.
If you are going to try to run a lot of 110v machines you are going to need one hell of a step down transformer.

seriously, consider selling everything there and starting again.

 

[no idea]

One big difference between UK/European saws and American ones is that the majority of the ones here cannot take a dado blade. If you can live with that then buy in the UK so you get the warranty and support should something go wrong.

 

[MikeJhn]

All correctly run building sites in the UK are on 110volts, so step down transformers of any size are available at a price, I run a few 110volt machines in my shop off a site transformer which is switched remotely by an infrared control, 110 cables run under the floor to floor boxes into the correct sockets with fly leads.

Having said all that it would be easier for you to set up anew in the UK, there are lots to choose from and delivery in the UK is reasonable compared to the US and continental Europe, I tend to buy in the UK and export to France where my workshop is, or get it delivered to France by a UK courier.

Mike

 

[mbartlett99]

Whatever you do don't sell everything and start again - it'll be bloody expensive! Most of my portable gear is US (I work there a lot) and it works fine here with a transformer - although at first I wondered if the electronics would handle the 50 Hz.

Regarding bigger machinery it'll depend how its wired; will run 18% slower on 50 Hz and you may have difficulty with parts. It may be cheaper to re motor depending on how good you are with sparks. Even a 3kw transormer is not that expensive - all our construction sites are 110V for safety so they're readily available.

For the table saw, well personally I love the slider and wouldn't consider anything else. One thing you'd best get your head around is the cost of timber here let alone the availability. If you don't what house you're going to be prepared for an unpleasant surprise - we live in small boxes which cost a fortune and often don't have a garage. It was a shock to me when I moved from Georgia.

 

[pcb1962]

If you are going to try to run a lot of 110v machines you are going to need one hell of a step down transformer.

Most people don't run more than one machine at a time (plus dust extractor) so the transformer only needs to be sized for the biggest single load.

 

[sunnybob]

If you are going to try to run a lot of 110v machines you are going to need one hell of a step down transformer.

Most people don't run more than one machine at a time (plus dust extractor) so the transformer only needs to be sized for the biggest single load.

you need at least a dust extractor and another machine running at the same time. Then the question is how do you move from machine to machine? Assuming single phase and less than 20 amp machinery, do you lump that 20KG transformer around with you, unplugging and and plugging in twenty times a day? or do you run back to it and keep swappping plugs? aanything over 20 amps or 3 phase is going to be a big problem.
Apart from the fact that the speed controllers are no longer accurate.

people working on site are used to constantly moving positions and equipment, but in a home workshop it will soon get very tiring.

 

[MikeJhn]

As I said in my previous post my transformer stays in one place (remote switched) extension leads run under the floor to floor boxes, I'v found plugging 110 is no more difficult than plugging in 240, the only problem with the transformer is the requirement for a C type MCB due to the transformer surge on start up.

Speed controllers not being accurate could be a problem, although it does not effect my 110volt vacuum or biscuit jointer.

Mike

 

[LarryG]

One big difference between UK/European saws and American ones is that the majority of the ones here cannot take a dado blade. /quote]

So what do you do for dado--router? That would certainly work, but much slower and more blade wear and tear, particularly for any larger casework projects.

 

[geoffshep]

Is this move temporary or permanent?

The grass is not always greener on the other side, and there are many over here who hanker after a US-style table saw with dado capability (which are not generally available over here) and a decent fence system. I have a saw with a sliding table which I never use - and poor dust collection, so you are not alone there. If you are fitting out a workshop, a 110v supply would be easy, but transformers are plentiful as a lot of job site tools are 110v.

 

[woodbrains]

Hello,

American electricity is 60Hz, and I believe motors will not work well, if at all. In any case the motor speed would be slower.

I was considering a move in the opposite direction many years ago, and IIRC I found that motors work from UK to USA but not the other way round, something about the start up draw current on a motor wound for 60 Hz trying to work on 50.

Mike.

Edit; that is for induction motors on static machibes. not brush types which work.

 

[custard]

Welcome to the UK Larry. How long will you be over here?

Just a year or two? Then take the opportunity to polish up your hand tool skills in an "unplugged" workshop. Providing you stick to smaller projects it's a delightful experience.

Longer? Start again, buy fewer but better machines that you can sell easily when you return home, and if you've got the space then absolutely experience a sliding table saw, I doubt you'll ever want to change back again!

Good luck with the move!

 

[LarryG]

Thanks to all for your many helpful ideas and suggestions. The move is intended to be permanent - the wife's British and her kids and grandkids are all here, so the anchor is pretty well planted. I'm in the process of retiring out of my business, so looking forward to a lot more time in the woodshop and a lot less in front of a computer and on the phone.

In the shop, I already do a lot of my work with hand tools, and really enjoy that part of it the most, but being pragmatic and perhaps slightly lazy, I'll use a machine where it's better and/or quicker, and the hand tools for the finer work. I just visited my first UK woodworking shop yesterday, the Axminster store in Sittingbourne, and was very pleased with the breadth and quality of the things they stock. I was also thrilled to see that they carry a full line of Veritas and Lie-Neilsen hand tools; at home, I have to order them and suffer outrageous shipping costs for the privilege of waiting 2-3 weeks for delivery (though in the spirit of full disclosure, 'home' now is Hawaii, so there are compensations for that suffering -- and yes, many have questioned my sanity for moving from Hawaii to the UK, including myself, but it's nice to be around family at this stage of life and there's still plenty of reason to visit Hawaii, particularly in the long winter months....).

It will be a little while before I start setting up the shop here - our house purchase isn't set to complete until March, and the house in Hawaii has to sell and then my shop and other goods have to be shipped here, so best case it might be summer. After seeing the quality and variety at the Axminster store and reading the posts here about what else is available, I'll probably sell off most of my US machinery and replace it here, rather than fight the power issues on bigger machinery. The stuff back home was cobbed together out of bargains and second hand, mostly, and while it has served me well, the idea of having some new toys in the shop is feeling pretty irresistible right now....

 

[sploo]

Man, I'm grumpy about having to soon move from Oxfordshire to Leeds. Hawaii to Essex rather puts that in proportion :wink:

I run a Porter Cable 892 router (claimed 2.25hp) from a yellow UK 110v building site supply - I just made a lead to connect the US style plug to a 110v plug. Works fine - though a good table saw is more likely to have an induction motor; which I assume will just run at ~83% of the speed due to the Hz difference.

I get the impression that (for table saws) there's a lot of choice for good value in the US (vs the UK). However, if you're looking at buying new then the cost of shipping may kill the savings difference. Big table saws in the UK are less common in home environments - both a simple case of space, but also we're less table saw centric.

If you have the cash, then possibly a Hammer might be a good choice (Felder's "budget" brand I believe).

 

[Jacob]

I.....
But I'm also intrigued by the sliding table style saw - they basically don't exist in the US, at least in the amateur woodworking shop, and not even in any trade shops I know. .....

Sliding table is brilliant. I didn't appreciate it until I got one on my Minimax combi. Very accurate and controlled cuts.
Longer the better:
For carrying/supporting stuff being cross cut, with very convenient adjustable scale and spring loaded stops on the fence, accurate repeat cuts, accurate mitre cuts, hold down clamp if needed.
But the less obvious benefits - ripping long timbers the sliding table acts as an extending table double the length, carrying and giving good support for heavy, or just long, timbers.
Even less obvious - you can clamp obscure shaped things to the table, even a whole piece of furniture, and slide it past the saw, which can be really useful on rare occasions!

Saw stop technology looks like a serious mistake to me. If you really need it you shouldn't be using the saw in the first place, and like all devices it will fail at some point, possibly removing a finger in the process.
Instead use TWO push sticks, all the time.

 

[sploo]

But the less obvious benefits - ripping long timbers the sliding table acts as an extending table double the length, carrying and giving good support for heavy, or just long, timbers.

That's a useful thought. I've had a DIY sliding table project on the back burner for my TS200 for ages, but I can see how even that would be useful for longer material - especially with the tiny TS200 table.

Saw stop technology looks like a serious mistake to me. If you really need it you shouldn't be using the saw in the first place, and like all devices it will fail at some point, possibly removing a finger in the process.
Instead use TWO push sticks, all the time.

Definitely agreed on two push sticks, but I still see value in the saw stop tech. It's like a seat belt; it may fail, and in all likelihood if you're a sensible driver you'll never need it, but it may save your bacon at some point.

 

[Jacob]

... saw stop tech. .....may save your bacon at some point.

Dunno, I think it increases risk: bizarrely, it can be switched off.
So if the saw stop encourages you do continue using unsafe american style techniques the day may come when it is switched off and fails to work, or just fails anyway.

 

[woodbrains]

Hello,

Leaving Hawaii? I'd be more inclined to bring a lifetime supply of Curly Koa with me, than a tablesaw!

Mike.

 

[pollys13]

Some of those US, Powermatic, Grizzly machines look really something. Seen some in The Wood Whisperers videos.
Perhaps more bang for your buck buying in the US rather than UK prices?