New Norris A5

[richarddownunder]

Hi All

Well, perhaps against my better judgement, I've just bought a 'new' post-war Norris A5 off a local auction site. Its been sitting around and has developed a bit of rust but other than that has never been used. Why hasn't it been used?...no idea, but the iron is still coated with the goo that was applied at the factory.

I was wondering if anyone had advice on how to remove the rust, especially the sides without damaging the surface finish too much. I'm not sure if there is significant pitting on the sole but the sides aren't too bad really. Do the infills come out of this model easily or are they usually glued in? If they came out, I could try electrolysis? If the sole is badly pitted, would you bother trying to get it surface ground at an engineerintg shop? I suppose I shouldn't jump the gun - it may be fairly superficial rust.

I figure it probably has little collection value as it's a later version so would like to get it shiny and working and decide whether it offers any benefit over my other planes. If nothing else, it'll be an interesting experiment.

If you are interested I paid about the same as a for decent new Clifton or LN smoother. Remains to be seen whether that was a good idea.

I might have to borrow Vann's descriptor as a collector of rusty and tarnished planes at this rate :shock:

Cheers
Richard

 

[AndyT]

This thread might help...

don-t-put-norris-in-the-shed-t63466.html

Oh and by the way, having the original box puts your plane firmly into the collectable status!

 

[toolsntat]

Infill should just have the screws holding it in place.
Andy

 

[Harbo]

I always start with a trial clean using fine wire wool and WD40 or any other light oil.
If that doesn't work then I used phosphoric acid.

Rod

 

[D_W]

Lap the sole, but do almost nothing to the sides other than prevent further rust. The engine turning is very shallow and will sand off instantly and it'll halve the plane value if you remove it.

You may wish to blade the rust that's there a bit if it's chunky, and research a way to deactivate the rust without etching any of the surrounding fresh metal.

 

[richarddownunder]

This thread might help...

don-t-put-norris-in-the-shed-t63466.html

Oh and by the way, having the original box puts your plane firmly into the collectable status!

Thanks for the link. I'm a bit obsessive about keeping my tools clean, dry and oiled. Anyway, I'll take it gently and see if I can restore it to it's former beauty with some wire wool and WD40 to begin with. Quite exciting really.

It still has the original waxy paper.

Cheers
Richard

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Didn't work very well, did it?

 

[richarddownunder]

Didn't work very well, did it?

Nope. In fairness though, apparently the rust is quite recent and the plane may have been on display (in a damp shed :evil: ). Its also probably about 70 years old - I might have lost some of my rustproofing by the time I'm 70.

Cheers
Richard

 

[D_W]

Beware that even steel wool will knock the shine off the engine turning. I can tell you from experience what the difference in value is if you accidentally remove it. Unfortunately.

 

[D_W]

By the way, Richard, your bad influence has caused me to buy 3 more infills. I still have room for the Preston smoother

 

[AndyT]

If you have never used Micromesh, you'll probably think it's just the same as emery. But I found that for this job, it really did give me much more control. Apparently it's because of the shape of the abrasive grains. I recommend you get a variety pack of grades from one of the usual places and give it a try.

Or else a glass fibre brush, like I posted about this week. You could even use that in a small circular motion, following the original pattern.

 

[ED65]

Boy it's a small world sometimes. I saw my first Norris just last week and it was a post-war A5!

If they came out, I could try electrolysis?

My first thought was electrolysis, seemed the safest best.

If you don't want to go that route then I think this is a prime candidate for a chemical rust remover. Hammerite make a very good one in gel form that you could paint on where needed rather than needing to soak the whole thing.

 

[richarddownunder]

Hi All. Thanks for the replies. There seems to be a common theme ..DON'T scrub the markings off the sides. I'm not familiar with micromesh, is this the sort of thing? http://www.timberlywoodturning.co.nz/pr ... x2%22.html Also the idea of hammerite (or equivalent) rust remover (or converter?) might be a good one - although does this just passivate the rust - turning it to a black ferric phosphate? Does citric acid etch the steel (i.e affect the engine turning) and would it affect the brass lever cap? I dont think it does but just thought I'd ask.

Actually (and this is my experience too), I found this ... "One warning - if you wish to preserve the etch on a saw, do not use the citric, acetic (vinegar) and especially the phosphoric acid treatment - these chemical treatments will obliterate the etch on most saws. In such a case, scraping with a single-edged safety razor blade is the best option." I guess it might have a similar effect on the sides of the plane. Maybe electrolysis is the best option after all.

D_W. ... Sorry about that (where do you get them all from?). And I still like the Preston. Sorry about that too.

Cheers
Richard

 

[Vann]

...Or else a glass fibre brush, like I posted about this week. You could even use that in a small circular motion, following the original pattern.

Richard, I bought one of these recently. They're available in New Zealand from G & A Warburtons Ltd at a reasonable price (I bought mine to clean electrical contacts on switchgear).

Cheers, Vann.

 

[AndyT]

Re the linked to pads - right abrasive, but I have not used and therefore can't recommend the version with a soft foam backing. It might be better, or it might make the job harder. I bought an assortment of small pieces of cloth backed abrasive from a seller on eBay. If you search back you'll probably find a post or two by Jimi43 at the time, but there will probably be someone in your part of the world. They last a long time and can be laundered, very easily if you happen to leave one in a trouser pocket.

And picking up on your question about citric acid - yes, it would dull the rest of the surface. I used it on the iron, but definitely would not use it on the body of a Norris.

 

[richarddownunder]

Thanks Andy and Vann. I'll go hunting for brushes and cloth.

I found the link below re electrolysis.

http://htpaa.org.au/resources/rust-removal

The idea of an electrolyte-soaked sponge on the plane side with the anode a lump of steel on top as pictured was appealing. I thought this was a potentially useful way of removing rust from infill planes if the infills were hard to remove. In the case of the Norris, the infills should come out but I was also wondering if there was any reason not to submerge and conduct electrolysis on the steel and brass lever cap - as that can't be separated. Would there be any galvanic action between the 2 different metals - even though both are the cathode? Its all getting a bit complicated.

Cheers
Richard :?

 

[D_W]

D_W. ... Sorry about that (where do you get them all from?). And I still like the Preston. Sorry about that too.

Cheers
Richard

Mostly UK eBay but in the states once in a while. I just had a Norris 2 get stopped and shipped back at the global shipping center, though. Still waiting to find out what happened there.

 

[ED65]

And picking up on your question about citric acid - yes, it would dull the rest of the surface. I used it on the iron, but definitely would not use it on the body of a Norris.

FWIW that dulling caused by vinegar or citric acid is easily counteracted (takes moments to minutes) unless you've soaked for a very long time indeed. Not that I'd suggest either be used here I hasten to add.

 

[ED65]

I was also wondering if there was any reason not to submerge and conduct electrolysis on the steel and brass lever cap - as that can't be separated.

It's no real issue apparently. I was going to add a caution on this but I checked first and there are multiple posts all over reporting electrolysis of parts with enclosed/embedded brass components such as bushings and the brass often doesn't come to any harm. The tin can be removed from the surface of brass and leave it copper coloured (as also happens when soaking in vinegar) but a quick polish sorts that out which indicates that only a very very thin layer is affected usually. Do read up on it if you want to err on the side of caution though, you might not want to take the chance with something this valuable.

 

[richarddownunder]

Well, I cleaned the Norris up a bit with electrolysis and some elbow grease, managing to preserve most of the pattern on the sides. There is a fair bit of pitting which is really disappointing - such a shame it was let go. Still, it works pretty well, the adjuster is nice and tight and the iron is great - holds an edge for ages. You can certainly see the decline in finish compared with the pre-war Preston I got a few weeks ago, but its still not a bad plane in terms of fit.

When setting the cut with a Norris adjuster, I gather you need to un-tighten the lever cap a little so as not to damage the thread on the adjuster. The problem is, when you then re-tighten the lever cap, it changes the depth of cut a bit. What is the correct technique for setting the depth with the adjuster? I'm beginning to wonder if just setting the iron with a hammer (as with the Preston) is actually no more difficult.

Cheers
Richard