New Goodwoodworking - First Impressions

[trevtheturner]

Hey, Mike, I understood your reasoning behind your suggestion okay. :wink: (Oh, and by the way, I do value your helpful contributions to these forums).

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Dunno why "criticism and vitriol + disagreement" :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: needed to be entered into the discussion! In itself, unpleasant phraseology which doen't need to be initiated on here. :roll: I am sure that most, on whichever side of the pond, will agree. A simple 'I don't think it's a good idea' might have been sufficient!

Cheers,

Trev.

 

[MikeW]

Oh, Tony's comment didn't really bother me none.

How can it? It's 2 am here, I'm obviously sleep-walking and cannot think clearly enough to really care :lol:

To be clear, I wish Nick all my best--as well as all of you there who are desirous of a "local" magazine to meet the varied needs of those who wish to see it work out.

I would think the UK Workshop Forum users are fairly representitive of the British woodworking community. And I think Nick knows it. Trying to make a success of any type of business is difficult at best. In this day, publishing has to be one of the most difficult I would imagine.

He deserves even my support, which may just end up being some empty words thrown at a keyboard in the middle of the night. Why? Because he has dared to expose himself, his vision and has asked the forum for input, encouragement and support. It's the least I can do.

 

[StevieB]

Well, since comments were invited, I give the new look magazine a cautious thumbs up :wink:

I think there was more content, stemming from a greater number of shorter articles. The upside is if you are not interested in a particular article its only a couple of pages, the downside is a loss of depth in those articles you really are interested in. Formats and fonts, colour boxes etc are not a major problem as far as I am concerned, these things change and are stylistic rather than content based.

As to specific comments, I actually liked the woodland article. I ride past a woodland for sale sign every day on the way to work and often wondered what exactly it was, now I know. I ws intrigued by one of the letters in the first new issue praising the new layout however :shock: Either I have missed an issue somewhere along the line or some people really can see into the future :lol:

As for what I would like to see, well as mentioned somewhere before a masterclass on finishing would be most welcome. Perhaps even a regular column. This is the one area I feel is often overlooked but makes such a difference to final pieces. I have only a basic (very basic) knowledge of French polishing, and even less of when to apply what finish - particularly when it comes to oils. An idiots guide on the various approaches and when to apply them, building on each other month by month so that even experienced finishers, who may not need the initial idiots guide, would benefit from advanced finishing techniques to be dealt with after the basics.

As for anticipation, as has been stated here so often is that we a a small, but broad based target audience. Would a 'part work approach' whereby a particular topic or subject was carried over multiple issues encourage purchase of future issues? Starting off basic but getting more advanced once the basics are covered? I started buying GWW when Andy King built his workshop - it took several issues and kept me buying as I was following the series while planning my own - the tip about trippling thickness of timbers in the corners to allow boarding of the inside was particularly useful and something I never would have thought of. Ideas that might fit this approach are techniques eg finishing, routing techniques, sharpening techniques, or reviews of a series of tools - how many of us read Alf's initial plane reviews then kept pestering for more reviews?! I know some if not all of these topics are covered in individual articles, but a part work approach would allow the depth people crave without devoting half an issue to the difference between a 25 and 30 degree angle on a plane blade for example.

Just my 2 pence worth :wink:

Oh, and I think the reason there are 13 issues not 12 is that mags work to a 4 week cycle, not a monthly one. Thus its 7 (8 weekly) or 13 rather than being 12. I could be entirely wrong of course, wouldnt be the first time as SWMBO keeps reminding me.....:roll:

Steve.

 

[Anonymous]

[Geez, Tony. Take a breath. It might have been a dumb suggestion to you,
. :lol:

sorry Mike, I seem to have gotten more carried away with my post than I thought .


I don't understand Trev's comment on "criticism and vitriol + disagreement" - clearly this was not aimed at you but the potential of such a thread :roll: :roll:

In my year and a half here, I've seen plenty of all of those - it is why I became a moderator and spend more time than is good for me looking through posts and moderating where appropriate.


The majority of comments in this current thread about GWW are negative rather than positive (despite soem claims to the contrary). Try to find the praise for Nick and the crew who have worked hard to bring changes :roll:


My point is this:
I don't want to see a sticky full of negative stuff at the top of a forum listing for new members to stumble across as their first exposure to the forum.

I think a sticky about mag content is not a good idea for this reason.

 

[sxlalan]

The majority of comments in this current thread about GWW are negative rather than positive (despite soem claims to the contrary). Try to find the praise for Nick and the crew who have worked hard to bring changes :roll:

As long as the negative comments are constructive I don't have a problem with this. Positive comments are nice but don't help you to improve what you are doing.

Alan

 

[Anonymous]

The majority of comments in this current thread about GWW are negative rather than positive (despite soem claims to the contrary). Try to find the praise for Nick and the crew who have worked hard to bring changes :roll:

As long as the negative comments are constructive I don't have a problem with this. Positive comments are nice but don't help you to improve what you are doing.

Alan

I don't disagree with you on this point Alan. Would be nice to see praise for the good stuff - areas that have been improved though.

 

[sxlalan]

Fair comment. I have tried 3 news agents so far and haven't been able to find a copy yet so can't provide any praise of my own :shock: . Hopefully this means that the mag is rushing off the shelves!

 

[Alf]

My point is this:
I don't want to see a sticky full of negative stuff at the top of a forum listing for new members to stumble across as their first exposure to the forum.

Better get that list of suppliers' websites down PDQ then... :wink:

As I understand it, Mike was proposing a sticky containing people's dreams and visions of what they'd like to see in a woodworking magazine. Not automatically negative, I wouldn't have thought? As it happens I tend to resist stickies too, but simply because there's a danger of needing to go to page 2 before you start on the active threads...

Now looking back I've actually restrained myself from listing all the stuff I have a problem with, but for the positive seekers, I give you:
Huzzah, no more David Savage.
Huzzah, book reviews are given a little more space to make them more useful.
Huzzah, for the "Source Book" at the end of some articles
Huzzah, for the second opinion, as long as it's not always the same person's second opinion (sorry, I know it was supposed to be solely positive...)
Huzzah, all the DIY stuff I don't want to read is in one place so I can avoid it. (there I go again - but that is a sort of positive)
Huzzah, Andy's tool reviews haven't all been fatally shortened.

Cheers, Alf

 

[mudman]

Huzzah, no more David Savage.

My word! :shock:
Whatever shall I do without his unique insights into the world of woodworking. :?
But then, does that mean I can go back to using a honing guide now? :wink:

Edited to make more use of irony and to prevent any further scary moments.

 

[MikeW]

My appologies to all if I tipped the scales towards criticism of this process, rather than constructive thoughts on what makes a good magazine.

My thought had been simply as this was a thread specifically having to do with a magazine I do not have access to (GWW) a separate thread for a general magazine wish list was made.

A publisher, currently only Nick, could then take it for what it is worth and not specifically a list of failings towards his magazine directly.

So sincere appologies especially to Tony for the little bit of a cheeky reply to his comments.

The mods here do a fantastic job for keeping this a civil place and I for one don't desire for it to become an onerous task for them.

Ok then, I'll get a hold of Nick and Company and see about getting a copy of the magazine, maybe a past issue as well and see if I can become a constructive contributor to this thread.

My best to all,

Mike Wenzloff

 

[Midnight]

Call me argumentative if it's applicable, but I reckon the idea of a "wish list" sticky is one of the more sensible I've heard in a while... I'll tell ya why too...

With very few exceptions, every new issue of GWW spawns a "whatchya think of the latest issue" thread... suitable amounts of air gets blown up applicable backsides for a few days before the fuss dies down and the thread becomes engulfed by subsequent new posts... Sticky status keeps the thread at the top of the list and can be added to whenever it's appropriate to do so...

re feedback...
While I'm no wordsmith, I've built a career from building high quality products, working largely without any feedback and guidance... While I do my utmost to see to it that every project I'm responsible for benefits from the highest workmanship I'm capable of, there's time when despite good intentions, I drop the ball... something doesn't quite work properly...
In such instances what I NEED is to be told that x,y or z was wrong for whatever reason... without that kinda feedback I can't ensure that the error isn't repeated in subsequent builds...
I'm not the kinda guy who responds to hot air blown up the wazzoo... I don't expect or need praise for doing what I'm supposed to do, however its nice to get a thankyou for efforts above and beyond my job description or regular working hours..

IMHO Nick, Andy and Martin have demonstrated a lot of guts with their frequent invitations to comment on their efforts, welcoming comments favorable or otherwise as both form key aspects of constructive criticism (how can ya fix it if ya donno what's broke???)... While I maay not agree with their definition of a quality product, I have to respect their participation in such threads... they've demonstrated that they've earned that respect the hard way...

I've yet to wire the ultimate ROV control system; there's always room for improvement, but I'm experienced enough to know I've come pretty bloody close a few times, and thanks to feedback the quality of product leaving my bench thesedays far exceeds my efforts back in the early days... the day that feedback stops is the day my workmanship quality begins to suffer... personally I consider that prospect unacceptable...

 

[Jake]

Please no more stickies. They get put up and never reviewed, and eventually the live threads are shoved over onto page two of the forum, which is totally offputting. One in, one out, if they are necessary at all. Please!

 

[Anonymous]

Hi All,

I've kept well away from this one after my last attempt at justifying both myself and the mag, but anyway... 8-[
The comments here, both positive and negative are welcome as it gives us an insight of what readers are after.
Watching the exceptional hard work put in by the main guys involved on the redesign, and also the editorial work beyond it leaves me with nothing but admiration.
Certainly there are some radical changes that upset some while others love it, and there are bits that I maybe would have kept, but that's the nature of the beast. We are getting plenty of comments via email and letter as well as here, and I know Nick is taking note of them all.
At the end of it is the desire to put a mag out that we hope readers will enjoy and equally importantly, will continue to hold its own in a difficult market. If we choose a route that is on the wane, or fail to freshen brighten and try to improve, the result will be readers voting with their feet and the demise of another woody mag.
It's not until you try something that it gets reaction. Our old look generated very little , but only a few days in and we have a postbag, web postings and emails enough to print a supplement!
Nick's idea to make the mag more of a 'pick up, put down, pick up again' by packing it with short features and snippets seems to have worked well, some readers like it, others not, but the transition is in its infancy, so will change further i've no doubt.

cheers
Andy

edit: Incidentally, this pales into insignificance after the atrocities of today. Both myself and the rest of the GW team send our sympathies to those who were caught up in an act of total cowardice.

 

[frank]

have you noticed the rest of the magazines are a wee bit quiet ,well to scared to even show them selves on this forum .and nick i did go and get copy but will wait to see what you do with the mag in the next few months .at least you and the team are having a go at trying to fix it .

 

[Newbie_Neil]

Hi Andy

I've kept well away from this one after my last attempt at justifying both myself and the mag, but anyway...

Good to see you back. Your input is always appreciated. :wink:

Cheers
Neil

 

[Alf]

Please no more stickies. They get put up and never reviewed

They are currently under review as we speak, Jake. It's a fair point; we need to keep on top of our housekeeping. :roll:

Cheers, Alf

 

[Anonymous]

Howdie Nick Gibbs. I used to enjoy your magazine a few years back here in the
States. I was following a series by John Brown on building windsor chairs using only
hand tools. Halfway through the series it was no longer available at any of the

yes, the John Brown isn't he "Jester" :idea:

 

[Alf]

Welcome to the forum, traewerk, and nope.

Cheers, Alf

 

[Jake]

Please no more stickies. They get put up and never reviewed

They are currently under review as we speak, Jake. It's a fair point; we need to keep on top of our housekeeping. :roll:

Cheers, Alf

It wasn't meant to be a pop at the mods here, it is just a general trait of fora with sticky threads. I have seen a couple where you have to go the second or third page to get passed the stickies to the live threads. This place is ***** and span by comparison.

 

[Anonymous]

Welcome to the forum, traewerk, and nope.

Cheers, Alf

I'm not convinced;
1) Yahoo group of Jacob Butler, Jester suddenly disappeared.
2) MSN group ukww, Jester......
3) JB gww, gone :roll: