New electrical supply debacle

[NormanB]

I was surprised they agreed to supply 3 phase to me; other people I have known in the past were unable to get it. Perhaps it is down to demand driven by electric car chargers?

When they say they are unable to do it. It means the work needed to connect you will be unaffordable - like £100K+ not so bad if you are building an estate for 50 houses but not a sun an individual householder could easily bear the cost of.

 

[Spectric]

This is something that should be looked into by the government and the building standards changed so that all new builds are supplied with three phase because it will help if they are seriously looking into reducing reliance on gas heating and people using EV's .

 

[Dabop]

That is normal for rural supplies, they run 11Kv to cover the distance and then drop to 230 volts to supply properties, larger requirements like farms can be supplied with 230-0-230 to allow more load but then a lot of farms do require a three phase supply so living near a farm could have advantages.

Lucky you get the two wire system- out the front here (rural Australia) we have a single wire on top of the poles (called SWER-Single Wire, Earth Return)- and although it works ok when the soil is damp, in dry conditions, it is quite common to have anything with motors in it damaged regurlaly- I am offgrid myself (it was cheaper than getting the mains on lol) but before the current 6 months of floods (4 in 6 months!!!) we had a 5 year long drought, and the neighbours had replaced several fridges, freezers, aircons and washing machines, all lost to undervolts (brownout)

 

[Keith 66]

20 years ago we built a large extension on our house, the overhead single phase supply had to be disconnected & a temporary supply laid on. I asked the electric company if it was possible to have the new supply 3 phase, "no problem" they said, "Cost will be £387 for single phase supply or £487 for a 3 phase supply. So another £100 & we had the 3 phase supply!
However fast forward 18 years & they insisted we had a smart meter, "But we have a 3 phase supply" we told them, they even sent an engineer out with a single phase meter who looked at it & went "Duuuhh its 3 phase, i cant touch that!" "Good" said i, "We dont want a single phase supply in the first place".
We still have our 3 phase supply!

 

[Spectric]

we have a single wire on top of the poles (called SWER-Single Wire, Earth Return)- and although it works ok when the soil is damp

That is penny pinching but I suppose so long as the soil is really dry the risk from electrocution is less! Yes a nice big generator has to be the way to go and the savings in replacing white goods and such will help pay for it.

 

[Dabop]

That is penny pinching but I suppose so long as the soil is really dry the risk from electrocution is less! Yes a nice big generator has to be the way to go and the savings in replacing white goods and such will help pay for it.

Solar is the way to go- my setup cost me $17500Au, 18kw (72x 250w ex gridtie panels) 12kw inverter, 6x 3kw solar controllers plus all the mounting bits etc- the grid connection was $42k Au, for a 8kw transformer out the front and a 500m run of poles down the driveway to the shed and house...
Generators are rare these days- fuel costs too much- diesel has dropped a bit, but at $2.40.9 a litre currently (down 30c)- you would need Bill Gates credit card to be able to run a house off one...

Half a tank in the Hilux....

 

[J-G]

...- fuel costs too much- diesel has dropped a bit, but at $2.40.9 a litre currently (down 30c)- you would need Bill Gates credit card to be able to run a house off one...

That's equivalent to £1.397 / Lt - My last (Petrol) half fill cost me £1.827 / Lt = AU$3.15 - Diesel is more - consider yourself fortunate

 

[Lorenzl]

Solar is the way to go

I would agree in a sunny country

 

[Peter Sefton]

Just about to start doing battle with Western Power, I have planning permission for the tool shop, a new showroom, offices and storage. I have two poles and overhead lines on my land which will cause problems. I would like one of the poles moving and the cables between the two poles undergrounding if possible. They will pass directly over/through the new building and one pole will make life difficult for moving around the site.

I made contact with WP this week and they have sent over a plan and wayleave from 1964, the property has changed hangs several times since then and been sliced and diced but we have never received and payment as indicated by the agreement. At present they are saying we will need to pay for any changes but I note a 12 month notice period within the agreement. Any advice would be helpful, I assume I can give them notice to remove and play the waiting game? These poles and wires do not serve my property or my neighbours but others further down the road.

Cheers

Peter

 

[Jacob]

Just about to start doing battle with Western Power, I have planning permission for the tool shop, a new showroom, offices and storage. I have two poles and overhead lines on my land which will cause problems. I would like one of the poles moving and the cables between the two poles undergrounding if possible. They will pass directly over/through the new building and one pole will make life difficult for moving around the site.

I made contact with WP this week and they have sent over a plan and wayleave from 1964, the property has changed hangs several times since then and been sliced and diced but we have never received and payment as indicated by the agreement. At present they are saying we will need to pay for any changes but I note a 12 month notice period within the agreement. Any advice would be helpful, I assume I can give them notice to remove and play the waiting game? These poles and wires do not serve my property or my neighbours but others further down the road.

Cheers

Peter

As I understand it if they haven't paid for the wayleave they have forfeited their right to it and you can tell them to clear off. Might need a solicitor on the case!

 

[Lorenzl]

I dealt with UK Power networks who are the suppliers for my region. They were really helpful and did a survey in two days and a quote in six as they had to check the transformer size - different department.

I would phone them and talk to somebody directly and they should hopefully at least send somebody out to carry out a survey. The operators on the phone I have found very helpful but they do tend to have their hands tied by red tape. Hence the 30 working days notice to fit a meter from eON.

 

[Dabop]

I would agree in a sunny country

Actually, it works pretty much anywhere- we Aussies use it in Antarctica...

The UK does get less than Australia, but it still works - you just need more panels to compensate for the lower insolation (the UK gets about 2.5kwh/m^2 per day, while where I am I get about 5kwh/m^2 per day- however due to the heat, I get less in summer than you might think- PV panels are quite bad when it comes to handling heat- mine drop to about 80% of their expected output when the air temp is over 40C and the panel temps get over 80C (they lose about 0.4% of their output per 1C rise in the panel temperature)- just when I need the most power to run the aircon, I've lost nearly quarter of my output!!!

 

[Dabop]

That's equivalent to £1.397 / Lt - My last (Petrol) half fill cost me £1.827 / Lt = AU$3.15 - Diesel is more - consider yourself fortunate

If I want to go to the carwash, or (ugghhh) McDonalds, or the local Bunnings hardware store- its a 1hr drive- each way- at 110kmh for much of it... in my ute, thats 10l per 100km... 18l at 2.40 per litre...

I do have a small town closer (only 10km away)- it has 1500 people in it, a single handful of streets in total, a pub, a supermarket, a small hardware store/rural store, a hamburger shop, a servo and a handful of other shops- it's truly tiny (the main street is two whole blocks long)

That's pretty much the entire downtown shops in sight there...
(looks like rush hour lol- there's more than one car driving at once!!!

 

[eribaMotters]

It is possible to get 3 phase supply into a new UK house. We are moving to Hatherleigh in Devon next months and that's what we have coming in. The house with air source heat pump and garage runs off one phase. If/when we go electric car they will switch in a second phase to supply the garage and car.

Colin

 

[Lorenzl]

How do the panels work in the "several month's of darkness"; do the staff go into hibernation?

It's all relative then - petrol slightly cheaper there but you have to drive 4x as far to get anywhere

I am not saying solar panels are totally useless but are better in certain locations than others. You also need the room to put them and facing in the correct direction.
Out of interest I was trying to find a chart on the web for how much the solar panel output was for a solar array per month but couldn't find one. So I gave up after about 5 min.

 

[Lorenzl]

It is possible to get 3 phase supply into a new UK house.

Yes it is possible; I was complaining about the problems I am having trying to get it.

 

[Dabop]

How do the panels work in the "several month's of darkness"; do the staff go into hibernation?

It's all relative then - petrol slightly cheaper there but you have to drive 4x as far to get anywhere

I am not saying solar panels are totally useless but are better in certain locations than others. You also need the room to put them and facing in the correct direction.
Out of interest I was trying to find a chart on the web for how much the solar panel output was for a solar array per month but couldn't find one. So I gave up after about 5 min.

No, but like everywhere else, it isn't an 'either/or' situation- for most of the year the panels work just fine which means that the total diesel usage is massively decreased- when they don't work they use the diesel generators which are already there... But with every litre of diesel needing shipping, the less they use, the less has to be transported...
As for the facing in a certain direction- again that is less of an issue than many believe- my old place had two wings facing east and west, the daily production was equal to the neighbours that faced north, my current arrays are facing north and west- the temporary setup at the old camp faced SOUTH!!! and still worked out ok (sufficient to drive my caravan at least)- sure it is 'best' but they will work at practically any angle, and even under the worst conditions (mine like any MPPT high voltage series array, will work literally from sunup (and even slightly before it lol), or even in 100% cloud cover- grey clouds and light rain about 50% of normal, black clouds and pouring about 30% of normal output...

 

[Lorenzl]

do the staff go into hibernation?

Sorry that was just a joke.

the neighbours that faced north

Confused me for a moment as south is the most efficient direction here.

If I have any money left over on my renovation I was looking to put a couple of panels on the back of our house facing south east.

Out of interest night time panels are being developed:

Modified solar panels that work at night generate enough power to charge a phone or run an LED light, bypassing the need to store energy in batteries in off-grid locations.

In simple terms, solar electricity is generated when the sun radiates energy towards a relatively cool solar panel. The panel consists of so-called solar cells, made from layers of a semi-conducting material, usually silicon. When light shines on this material, it generates a flow of electricity.

At night, however, solar panels radiate heat to outer space, which has a temperature of around 3 kelvin (-270.15°C), because heat travels in the direction of lower temperatures. This makes the solar panel cooler than the night air, a temperature difference that can be exploited to produce electricity.


To do this, Shanhui Fan at Stanford University in California and his colleagues modified an off-the-shelf solar cell by adding a thermoelectric generator, a device that produces currents from temperature differences.

“The solar panel turned out to be a very efficient thermal radiator,” says Fan. “So, at night, the solar panel can actually reach a temperature that’s below the ambient air temperature, and that’s a rather unusual opportunity for power harvesting.”

 

[Peter Sefton]

Is three phase going to be the norm in new build?

I believe they are keen to try if possible, fast car charging and heat pumps will require so much more electricity. Getting three phase as a new connection has always been very expensive, fingers crossed the network providers will drop the pricing to a more acceptable level.



Cheers

Peter

 

[Lorenzl]

Still haven't exchanged - our buyers are using a online solicitor; don't ever do that! It also complicates things as they are using a "third party" solicitor for the mortgage and it has turned into a total nightmare. The third party solicitor as far as I know only started looking at the file today and we wanted to exchange today. We initially planed between us to complete at the beginning of August.

Anyway back to the 3 phase supply.

One of my tasks is to install a 3 phase meter box and hockey stick; simple enough?

I have probably spent more than five hours over a couple of days trying to find a 50mm hockey stick. I have searched online and spoken to electrical wholesalers, building merchants, pipe manufactures and groundworkers. Most have never heard of them and so I contacted UK power networks who suggested a company they get theirs from. They don't have any and are having problems getting some more.
Part of the problem is nobody can give me a part number to search for. UK Power use Polyduct and when I contacted Polypipe they said to contact some other company who had never had any.

Anyway back in UK Powers lap at the moment. So if you are getting a three phase supply installed make sure you try and find a hockey stick in plenty of time. If I ever find a supplier or part number I will post the details here.