New EEC rules re Vacs!!

[lastminute]

Looking for a decent vac for my workshop equipment...TS55, bandsaw, mitre saw etc..new rules soon means only lower wattage units can only be sold!!

Anyone bought one that they would recommend!!?

Thanks

Gerry

 

[Phil Pascoe]

It doesn't apply to industrial stuff, only domestic afaik.

 

[Andy RV]

I've got the Festool Midi which I use with hand held power tools and it's great, no complaints.

 

[Ed Bray]

I bought a Karcher MV3P from Screwfix for £85, works great with both my DF500 Domino and my VRS system on my Leigh Jig, not too loud and the power tool take-off works great. I have a larger 1.5HP Extractor SIP which I use for my larger machines.

 

[scrimper]

Looking for a decent vac for my workshop equipment...TS55, bandsaw, mitre saw etc..new rules soon means only lower wattage units can only be sold!!


Gerry

As Phil says the rule applies to domestic machines and I am one of the few people who agrees with the new rule, the high wattages have got out of hand in the last few years with domestic vacs being advertised with up to 2500 watts motors!

You do not need a high wattage cleaner to clean efficiently, the original Hoover upright vacs only used motors rated at between 400 and 700watts and yet still clean as well as any modern high wattage machine, the design of the fan system is more important than how much electricity is used! The only reason we have got machines in the 2000 watt bracket is marketing hype by the makers trying to outdo each other because customers think higher wattage is better!

With most of my workshop machines I use ordinary old style cylinder vacs as extractors and the work perfectly well, with my disc/belt sander I have an old 1960,s Hoover constellation fitted in the home made cabinet below with a homemade valve to switch from belt to disc collection it works brilliantly, I set them up so that as the machine is switched on the suction device starts at the same time.

The cost was practically zero as most of the cleaners I use were either thrown away as non working (which is often just a broken wire) or ones people no longer wanted as they bought a new 'super duper' high wattage vac that uses twice as much juice!

 

[Harbo]

I checked out our upright Oreck which works really well - it's got a 350W motor.
It's only an upright without any attachments which also makes it easy to push etc.
We have other Devices with tubes etc when they are required.
My daughter has a Miele which is incredibly heavy and makes your wrist and hand ache!

Rod

 

[Phil Pascoe]

"The cost was practically zero as most of the cleaners I use were either thrown away as non working (which is often just a broken wire)" - Scrimper

That is a very good point - if you come across them that have "broken down", check the continuity of the lead. Probably 90% of the ones I ever looked at had broken leads, usually just where the lead leaves the plug or just where it leaves the machine. I had one in my garage for about 15yrs that was thrown out as not working.

 

[Jacob]

I've got the Trend T30 extractor/vac. Expensive but works well for both functions. The accessories probably not as tough as as a good quality vac (Bosch etc).

 

[scrimper]

"The cost was practically zero as most of the cleaners I use were either thrown away as non working (which is often just a broken wire)" - Scrimper

That is a very good point - if you come across them that have "broken down", check the continuity of the lead. Probably 90% of the ones I ever looked at had broken leads, usually just where the lead leaves the plug or just where it leaves the machine. I had one in my garage for about 15yrs that was thrown out as not working.

Indeed a lot of people just check the plug (if openable) and if the wires are connected assume the motor is faulty whereas the conductors are often open circuit inside the insulation. On moulded on plugs it easy to snip it off and replace, amazingly there are a lot of people (obviously not UKworkshoppers who are electrics savy) who never think to remove moulded on plugs. It always amuses me when I read in Amazon reviews where people say they can't use an item and have to send it back because it was only supplied with a lead with a 2 pin continental plug, don't they ever think to chop it off and fit a UK plug?

 

[shed9]

In my opinion, it will eventually work in the consumers favour. They will develop better motors, better airflow design and probably start using brushless motors a lot more.

 

[Steve Maskery]

I've just been to Tesco (a very rare event, but they do give away fresh yeast for free).

They had a stack of maybe 8 or 10 by the front door. 2400W, half-price at £59.99. When I came out there were just 2 left.

I thought it was quite expensive for something that will have to be scrapped next week.

S

 

[woodbrains]

I thought it was quite expensive for something that will have to be scrapped next week.

S

Hello,

Are they going to send the vac police around, door to door, to make everyone chuck out their over rated hoovers?

I'm not sure reducing power is necessarily a good thing. Increasing efficiency is always a benefit, but there is going to be a point where there just isn't enough airflow and negative pressure to suck stuff up. Admittedly 2000 + watts for a household vac is over egging, but if the power is lowered to 900W eventually, I do not believe hoovers will work. Either we will have to use the machine for longer, which defeats the object, or we will have to tolerate lower levels of filtration, which is worse than useless as the very fine dust will just re enter the atmosphere. I'm talking about household hoovers here, for their intended purpose. I think my Henry at 1200W is pretty near perfect, but they will be outlawed eventually, I believe.

Those who mention the very low wattage, early machines are not comparing like for like. If those vac units were to be used with modern multi stage filtration, I doubt they would have the oomph to blow the froth of a beer, and the motor would run hot and die.

As a side issue, anyone using domestic/antique hoovers for workshop extraction for sanders etc. should realise that if the filtration will not capture very fine dust, they may as well not bother. Just capturing the messy stuff you can see is only saving a brush and shovel clean up, it is the stuff you can't see that is going to kill you and I think you need a reasonably beefy motor to suck air through super fine filters, especially when they get a coating of the dust they have just prevented re entering the atmosphere.

Mike.

 

[bugbear]

Looking for a decent vac for my workshop equipment...TS55, bandsaw, mitre saw etc..new rules soon means only lower wattage units can only be sold!!


Gerry

As Phil says the rule applies to domestic machines and I am one of the few people who agrees with the new rule, the high wattages have got out of hand in the last few years with domestic vacs being advertised with up to 2500 watts motors!

You do not need a high wattage cleaner to clean efficiently, the original Hoover upright vacs only used motors rated at between 400 and 700watts and yet still clean as well as any modern high wattage machine,

My main household vac is a Hoover 625, power=425 watts. They are so good (from the mid 1960s) , they still have a good s/h value, used by pubs and hotels.

2.5 Kw vacuum cleaners is madnes.

BugBear

 

[shed9]

I thought it was quite expensive for something that will have to be scrapped next week.

S

Hello,

Are they going to send the vac police around, door to door, to make everyone chuck out their over rated hoovers?

I suspect this was sarcasm on Steve's part...


In reality the whole 1600/900 or less argument is moot anyhow. The motor rating in terms of watts means little in regards to vacuum cleaners these days. You can buy two similarly rated machines and yet still have huge disparities in the actual suction power.

The real number that needs paying attention to is air watts.

Perhaps manufacturers will start making efficient devices and advising the consumer of actual suction power as opposed to rebadging fifty year old technology and standing behind a big motor as proof of its ability.

 

[scrimper]

As Phil says the rule applies to domestic machines and I am one of the few people who agrees with the new rule, the high wattages have got out of hand in the last few years with domestic vacs being advertised with up to 2500 watts motors!

You do not need a high wattage cleaner to clean efficiently, the original Hoover upright vacs only used motors rated at between 400 and 700watts and yet still clean as well as any modern high wattage machine,

My main household vac is a Hoover 625, power=425 watts. They are so good (from the mid 1960s) , they still have a good s/h value, used by pubs and hotels.

2.5 Kw vacuum cleaners is madnes.

BugBear

Fully agree the 652 (Senior) was (and still is) an excellent cleaner along with the model 912 were almost universally used in hotels, pubs, hospitals and many other places during the 1960's 70's and 80's. The advantage was that every single part was available as a spare inc all the individual motor parts rather than like today when a whole motor has to be changed if faulty. My wife still uses a 652 and the smaller 1334 (Junior) I also have a good stock of spares to keep them going for many years. I also use a Hoover 612 (1958) in my workshop, all the vacs mentioned were manufactured at Hoover's Perivale factory when Hoover was a decent company, Hoover is now owned by Italian company Candy and the machines are bought by the container load from the far east! Very sad.

 

[woodbrains]

Hello,

As with everything, things are more complicated than they appear. I suspect you can make a 100 W motor and fan unit to suck like a hurricane, if there is no resistance to the exhaust, but we have to suck through a series of filters, or else the dust just gets sent straight back out. I agree that the measure of motor power is not the best way to rate hoovers performance, but neither is suction in CFM, nor any power rating such as air Watts, unless there is some qualifying factor. If my vac filters down to .5 micron, it may well have a similar suction to one that only filters down to 2 mic and runs on half the motor power. It is not just about relinquishing dusts hold on the carpet! Although the build quality and replacement part availability of old machines is second to none, and I wish there was a return to such (longevity of products is probably more environmentally friendly than limiting motor size, but the EU won't legislate for this) I doubt the engineers who designed these machines had computer modelling to aerodynamically engineer the components as modern machines might have. Although there is always room for improvement, I suspect that good quality, modern machines have more efficient use of power than old things do. I also doubt that the EU bureaucrats (male?) who decided on this legislation have even seen their au pair use the vacuum cleaner in their homes! I'm all for saving the planet, but I think this is all a bit lame. There needs to be a concerted effort to develop clean renewable energy so we can live our modern lives, which is also a consequence of the rules they pass down to us.

Will there come a time that the EU will ban home workshops? If I add up the number of Watts my machines used and its effect on the planet, it would make a mockery of the few used by my Hoover to keep my home clean. Let face it, I can buy all the furniture I need from Swedish home furnishers, for almost no money, so my workshop is essentially an unnecessary indulgence.

Mike.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

There is apparently a fleet of 750 trucks on the road perpetually between Brussels and Strasbourg that serve no purpose other than to satisfy French vanity. When the eu gets rid of Strasbourg and it's attendant costs, I might take some notice of their lecturing me on saving the planet. I suspect I will be waiting a long time.

 

[john458]

I've just been to Tesco (a very rare event, but they do give away fresh yeast for free).

They had a stack of maybe 8 or 10 by the front door. 2400W, half-price at £59.99. When I came out there were just 2 left.

I thought it was quite expensive for something that will have to be scrapped next week.

S

They give away fresh yeast? Why? I want some. Where do i ask for it please?

 

[Phil Pascoe]

John - you have a PM (rather than corrupt a thread)

 

[markturner]

What a complete waste of time and effort, I imagine that it would be statisically impossible to even measure the difference this measure would make. More EU gesture eco politics. I dont know how often you guys hoover, but we get the cleaner in once a week and Imagine the hoover is on for perhaps 15 minutes. One of you could try and work it out, but seriously, multiply that by the households in britain that actually have one of these devil machines and I reckon the differnce in the power used would be about the equivilant of lighting one of my farts...........

And before you get all righteous about it, most of those who agree probably have industrial rated extractors in your workshops.......what gives you the right to use those above someone in a house.........? Just because you happen to like working wood?