Nano / graphene / ceramic finishes?

[alex robinson]

Just wondered if anyone had tried any nano or ceramic finishes? I have seen them mentioned on youtube a lot and there are loads for cars, but there seems to be very little about them for woodworking when they are not trying to sell you something!

Someone on here said they were considering trying one on some brass, but I cannot find any pictures. I have a couple of slice tables finished with epoxy that I was wondering about trying them on.

Thanks!

 

[alex robinson]

So in the absence of any wise advice, I decided to give it a go with a mid range car product (Gtechniq crystal lacquer). It is a ceramic formulation. On exposure to air, silica nanoparticles polymerise to give a higher shine and a very thin tougher layer.

Tiny bottle of clear liquid the consistency of water. A few drops on an applicator pad, wipe on, then wipe with a microfiber cloth.

Too early to say how it works for durability, but it definitely increases the shine a bit. I will try a destructive test on some scraps to see if it makes any difference to stain or scratch protection etc.

 

[NickDReed]

Didn't see this thread originally. Will be interested to hear you update on how it holds up.

 

[alex robinson]

It is something that is likely to become more commonly used in the future. Some of my colleagues have worked on the characterisation and environmental assessments of nanoparticle protective treatments. The physics / chemistry of them definitely works, the unknown is what is in the bottle you buy and if it is appropriate for your chosen use. As with so many new technologies they filter downwards and woodworking is quite near the bottom of the pile! The use of silica based ceramic coatings started in the aerospace industry, then made its way to the world of car detailing and now woodwork. Similar to random orbit sanders I guess!

 

[niall Y]

This looks to be interesting. The way I understand it, it seems to be a a final protective coat to go on top of an existing paint finish, imparting a gloss , so, more akin to a wax- polish in this regard.
Are you using it to enhance the shine of an existing epoxy coating? In which case it is not being used directly on the wood . I also note that the manufacturers are only claiming a 6 month period for it to work effectively, before reapplication, so again drawing parallels with a wax polish
. I would be interested to see what sort of gloss levels you can achieve with it, and discover whether it could be used to enhance the the finish of turned wooden items.

 

[alex robinson]

Definitely a surface coating to applied over an existing finish. Not something to go on bare wood. The camera on my phone is a bit rubbish, so difficult to get a good comparison. I tried it over some osmo on a turned bowl as well, and it improved the colours and gave it more of a "wet" look.

Durability will be interesting to test, but I guess on a car being driven at speed through rain and other road debris is probably a harsher use than most woodworking situations.

I saw about them on youtube (Blacktail studio). There are a few tests of his product as well as just his videos, but it is very expensive. Hearing the science was real was enough for me to try £40 worth, but not £150!

 

[imageel]

Interesting stuff, as the manufacturer states this provides a hard drying protective coat and can be used on matt finishes - so does not in itself add much gloss.
So as with most finishing the underlying surface prep is paramount and polishing that 1st before applying this protective finish is paramount if you want a high gloss finish.
For something like brass which is quite soft I'd have thought cheap-end products like Solvol Autosol would work well since the abrasive they us is quite soft so the more you polish the finer the abrasive particles become.
I used an automotive product on some speakers where I wanted to achieve a piano level of gloss and used a 3M product Finesse-it - again a product targeted at the automotive market and it worked quite well, this was on top of some Morrells 2-part cat paint. From memory it was around £30/l so somewhat cheaper than this high-tech sealer.

 

[Jason Wheeler]

I have used the Blacktail Studios n3 nano finish on our kitchen worktop, which was sanded, waxed and finally the ceramic was applied - they have a good couple of instructional videos on YouTube - I found it easy to use and so far a very good finish, particularly on a kitchen worktop as it beads water well and does seem to protect the surface better than just a hard wax

 

[Jason Wheeler]

Pictures don’t help at all - was trying to show the sheen after 6 months or so but it just looks like glare!

 

[alex robinson]

Interesting stuff, as the manufacturer states this provides a hard drying protective coat and can be used on matt finishes - so does not in itself add much gloss.
So as with most finishing the underlying surface prep is paramount and polishing that 1st before applying this protective finish is paramount if you want a high gloss finish.
For something like brass which is quite soft I'd have thought cheap-end products like Solvol Autosol would work well since the abrasive they us is quite soft so the more you polish the finer the abrasive particles become.
I used an automotive product on some speakers where I wanted to achieve a piano level of gloss and used a 3M product Finesse-it - again a product targeted at the automotive market and it worked quite well, this was on top of some Morrells 2-part cat paint. From memory it was around £30/l so somewhat cheaper than this high-tech sealer.

I think you misunderstand the aim of these products. These are top coats to add durability to be used over existing finishes. In the case of the epoxy table I had already used 2 grades of polishing compound, much like cutting polishes are used over car paint by detailers. Any change to the shine or look is incidental (though the improved colours over the osmo finish on the bowl was a pleasant surprise), and they certainly don't contain any cutting compounds.

Almost all woodworking finishes are soft. From incredibly soft like wax to moderately soft like a polyurathane varnish. The aim of ceramics is to put an incredibly thin layer of something very hard over the top. I have no idea yet if they are worth the money. £40 seems a lot for a small bottle, but the amount you use is tiny. If it improves the durability then it may be a good investment. If not, then it is always interesting to try new science.

 

[alex robinson]

Pictures don’t help at all - was trying to show the sheen after 6 months or so but it just looks like glare!

That is very interesting. Maybe I shouldn't have been a ckeapskate and should have bought the proper thing! I guess if it still looks like glare after 6 months of use that is a pretty solid recommendation. Doubt a hard wax oil alone would have survived as well!

 

[niall Y]

Looking on Ebay the prices seen to be a lot cheaper for the automotive ones in a 16oz spray. There is a marine one for about £37. 00, but the others are coming in at about £23,00.

 

[Jason Wheeler]

That is very interesting. Maybe I shouldn't have been a ckeapskate and should have bought the proper thing! I guess if it still looks like glare after 6 months of use that is a pretty solid recommendation. Doubt a hard wax oil alone would have survived as well!

Definitely not! I make a few tables as a finish it’s the best I have used - I try to keep it off the resin is there is a river, as it’s harder to polish off, but it’s dead easy to apply - just need a stopwatch running!
It is pricey (maybe £100 for the “kit”) but it lasts for many projects and within the overall cost of a table or worktop it’s negligible

 

[Jason Wheeler]

Don’t have any better pictures to give an idea I’m afraid!

 

[AnselmFraser]

Hi there, hoping this might be the right place to put out an sos. I'm about to install a massive 7 meter by 2 meter board room table which is currently in 6 sections. Am using the black forest ceramic coating to give extra protection. I applied the base coat to the first of 6 sections and then dropped the bottle on a concrete floor. SMASH. The table is ebonised oak and I now have 1 table section which is a darker black and different sheen level to the remaining 5 which have 2 coats of rubio on. Does anyone here have some black forest base coat or even blacktail studio N3 base coat I could buy off them (or replace) which i c could come and collect in the next day or so?!? I know, massive ask!!! I've used some of the ceramic coating you can buy here in the UK (all of which are designed for the automotive industry) and in my experience they are more difficult to get a totally even result with especially over the size I'm dealing with. I will be forever in your debt. Contact details are [email protected]

All best

Jamie Fraser from Anselm Fraser Design

 

[Jason Wheeler]

I do - have the Blacktail Studio kit - am near Northampton - ping me a PM!

 

[Jason Wheeler]

I do - have the Blacktail Studio kit - am near Northampton - ping me a PM!

Scotland too far for you to drive particularly this weather - am sure can work out something with DPD or parcelforce - have emailed you

 

[Jason Wheeler]

That is very interesting. Maybe I shouldn't have been a ckeapskate and should have bought the proper thing! I guess if it still looks like glare after 6 months of use that is a pretty solid recommendation. Doubt a hard wax oil alone would have survived as well!

A year on it’s still pretty much the same as when I applied the finish - really happy with it!

 

[Katomi woodsmith]

Interested in this product, what is the life of the finish and what is the reapply process. My table is a working one kids use and the needle work, diy projects. Once every two years I cut the wax back and re surface, no big problem
Did a hard varnish table once….. never again

 

[Jason Wheeler]

Well, I finished the worktop middle last year - applied two coats of the “top coat” - liquid still beads on it and I really can’t tell the difference from when it was first applied - and it does get pretty heavy use - won’t stop scratches if somebody drags something over the work surface but it’s not deigned for that.

I have used other finishes and this one (the Blacktail studio one) definitely is the best I have used so far - it’s not cheap but a little goes a long way and it’s a lot cheaper than having to annually refinish the worktop with Rubio or something like that