Naive wood-turning question.

[Dave Moore]

Thanks. I've not got back to it yet but as advised I'll rough out on the bandsaw and find or grind an HSS tool when I do.
As an aside though, there are sharp high +ve rake metalworking inserts designed for non-ferrous metals, eg this chamfer tool:
View attachment 166263
I know that wood turning carbide inserts exist and wonder if it the same basic technology. Probably a massive subject and I'm in way above my head, but can't help thinking...!
Bob.

Hi Bob,
carbide tips seem to be used for resin and turning log shapes ie against the normal accepted way of turning end grain. When I learnt to turn over 20 yrs ago very few were turning into end grain making vessels but a lot are doing it now. If you look on YouTube most are using carbide tips as they don’t need resharpening like HSS tools do but don’t give the finish like HSS. When I started it was considered a failure if you needed to aggressively sand a finish on your turn
as a well sharpened HSS and skill almost need no sanding. As a poster in an engineering supplier says ‘ if you need to grind all your welds after finishing then you are a grinder, not a welder’ . LOL.
Regards,
Dave

 

[Fergie 307]

How does the finish you are getting compare with using the tool in its conventional, horizontal, orientation.

 

[chaoticbob]

Thanks for further replies. I thought that before taking the work off the lathe, bandsawing it a bit rounder and grinding an HSS tool I'd have a go with the SCGT chamfering tool I showed earlier just to see what would happen. I set it to take a 2mm cut and it was really easy - no breakout or tearing - so I carried on. The chips just peeled off. Took perhaps five minutes to reduce the 100mm square to round going back and forth.

Hi Bob,
carbide tips seem to be used for resin and turning log shapes ie against the normal accepted way of turning end grain. When I learnt to turn over 20 yrs ago very few were turning into end grain making vessels but a lot are doing it now. If you look on YouTube most are using carbide tips as they don’t need resharpening like HSS tools do but don’t give the finish like HSS. When I started it was considered a failure if you needed to aggressively sand a finish on your turn
as a well sharpened HSS and skill almost need no sanding. As a poster in an engineering supplier says ‘ if you need to grind all your welds after finishing then you are a grinder, not a welder’ . LOL.
Regards,
Dave

That's interesting. Obviously there's no substitute for skill - I imagine that with freehand turning one constantly adjusts angles, feed &c as dictated by the workpiece. I'm stuck with a metalworking lathe at the moment, so fewer degrees of freedom!

Following are a couple of pics. One of the cutter and holder I put together and the other of it being used to turn the outside of an African Blackwood tube, fixed to a mandrel on my lathe.

I experimented a bit with trying to get the bevel rubbing against the wood by bringing the top end of the cutter away from the tool-holder. However I found the best position, was half-way between.
It cut the wood really well, but I can't say I was impressed with the finish that I was getting direct from the tool. Part of this is down to the flexing of the carriage on my lathe, and part down to the rack and pinion I have to operate by hand - not smoothly enough I have to add.
I will have to experiment further with a square radius, carbide cutter to try and improve the finish.

Thanks for the pics. I'd be interested to hear the results of experiments with different insert forms. On HSS for wood in a metalwork lathe I wonder if you've tried 'shear cutters':

That's from GadgetBuilder but I've made something similar myself - takes fluffy shavings from metal and leaves a fine finish, but I've not tried on wood.

The 'blackwood tube' takes me back to my first set of Uilleann pipes from Brian Howard in Sheffield - he showed me his workshop (a shed at the bottom of his garden) - he did all the turning on an engineering lathe. At the time I was more interested in the music than the technology, so didn't enquire too deeply!
Bob.

 

[niall Y]

Thanks for further replies. I thought that before taking the work off the lathe, bandsawing it a bit rounder and grinding an HSS tool I'd have a go with the SCGT chamfering tool I showed earlier just to see what would happen. I set it to take a 2mm cut and it was really easy - no breakout or tearing - so I carried on. The chips just peeled off. Took perhaps five minutes to reduce the 100mm square to round going back and forth.


That's interesting. Obviously there's no substitute for skill - I imagine that with freehand turning one constantly adjusts angles, feed &c as dictated by the workpiece. I'm stuck with a metalworking lathe at the moment, so fewer degrees of freedom!

Thanks for the pics. I'd be interested to hear the results of experiments with different insert forms. On HSS for wood in a metalwork lathe I wonder if you've tried 'shear cutters':
View attachment 166494

That's from GadgetBuilder but I've made something similar myself - takes fluffy shavings from metal and leaves a fine finish, but I've not tried on wood.

The 'blackwood tube' takes me back to my first set of Uillean pipes from Brian Howard in Sheffield - he showed me his workshop (a shed at the bottom of his garden) - he did all the turning on an engineering lathe. At the time I was more interested in the music than the technology, so didn't enquire too deeply!
Bob.

Hi there, Bob.
It's good you managed to get an acceptable result with your cutter. Funnily enough the sheer cutter you show in the photo was going to be the next one I experimented with to try and achieve that final finishing cut for my whistles.

I've recently been trying to sharpen an HSS cutter to mimic the cut of a skew chisel. At the moment it is presented square on, to the spindle, and gives fairly satisfactory results. The next step is to sharpen a similar cutter to give a slight sheer to the cut, much like one would present a skew chisel to do a planing cut.

Interesting that you should mention Uilleann pipes. I would dearly love to have a go at making a set, but one of the things that would stump me, at present , is the tapered bore down the centre.

Niall

 

[chaoticbob]

Hi Niall. I feel a bit of thread drift coming on, but it's my thread so OK I suppose!
I had a go at making low D whistles (from metal) a long time ago but making the fipples (by hand) was so time consuming I gave it up as a commercial proposition.
As you probably know Uilleann chanter bores are generally made by step drilling followed by reaming with a conical reamer. It's a somewhat obscure subject though. Secrets are jealously guarded! With apologies if I'm teaching granny (I don't know how far down this rabbit warren you've wandered) David Daye has been working to demystify things for many years and sells 'penny chanters' with bores made from telescoping tubing, so essentially step bored albeit with fine steps. His website is worth a look if you haven't been there already. There is (probably) some useful info on the Na Píobairí Uilleann site as well - when I was a member and got their mag they started a series on pipemaking, but I don't know if it's archived.
I currently have a Charles Roberts half set and toy with the idea of measuring the chanter bore to see if I can replicate it, but never get round to it...

My thanks again to those who have responded my OP - it's all been very useful to me.
Bob.

 

[niall Y]

Yes, I'm afraid I've already been sucked down that particular rabbit hole. I've come across David Daye's website and plans .but until now wasn't able to track down a source of telescopic tubing. However, I'm determined to crack whistle making first before changing tack.
Niall

 

[Housey210]

wear a mask, evil stuff iroko dust!

 

[chaoticbob]

wear a mask, evil stuff iroko dust!

Well, I think it's iroko - I bought a lab bench top (2400x 550 x 25 mm) from a guy on eBay for £10! This is just an offcut - does it look like iroko to you?

Thanks for the warning anyway!
Bob.

 

[Housey210]

No doubt, turned up nice. I had a many a lab bench from schools and council workshops, criminal what the local councils chucked away in the 80s.

 

[chaoticbob]

No doubt, turned up nice. I had a many a lab bench from schools and council workshops, criminal what the local councils chucked away in the 80s.

Thanks for confirmation. For the record it also faced quite nicely using the same tool with the 'pointy end' parallel to the lathe axis:

There are some 'pores' (don't know the technical term) towards the right of the pic but I guess that's in the nature of the wood. It'll polish up nicely I'm sure.
Bob.