Multifunctional Maneuverable Bench - Ideas & Advice?

[PeteG]

I didn't spend the weekend as planned, and spent too much time on Saturday sat in the shed drinking tea and thinking bout stuff I did clean the cast iron table on the table saw with Briwax and also the bandsaw table whilst I was at it. I then decided it was time to sort the bench top out. I'd bought a couple of bench dogs from Axminster a few weeks back, so the first job was to add another layer of 18mm MRMDF to the table top, giving me a total thickness of 54mm. Advice taken from phil.p a few months ago. I also glued up three small pieces of waste MRMDF to try a couple of test holes on, although I hadn't decided at this point what I was going to use to drill the holes.
Sunday morning I trimmed round the sides with the router and then did a search for a suitable hole cutter or drill bit. I found a you tube video by Oliver Parry who had used an Armeg Wood Beaver drill bit, and thankfully the local Screwfix branch had a 19mm in stock. So after a quick trip to Screwfix it was time to measure up and try a test cut before making a mess of the table top. The Beaver cuts very clean holes and quickly to, but for the 54mm top I could only cut around 45mm or so before adjusting the drill stand. I also had a piece of 3" x 2" clamped beneath the table top to reduce break out, thankfully there wasn't any.

This is where the questions start

1: Should I use a small round over cutter with the router around the top of each hole?

2: I have some 3" x 1" Ash which I'd like to edge the MDF with. But I'd also like to add a some form of aluminum track so I can attach a fence or guide for cutting sheet plywood down. [Cross Cut Only] I buy 8' x 4' sheets cut to 8' x 2' so they'll fit in the car. I understand that I can't screw directly in to the MDF, so I'm hoping the Ash will not only look good but will also hold the tracking or profile. If this is OK, will gluing alone be OK for the Ash trim, or should I add a few Dominos as well?

3: Can anyone recommend which tracking or aluminim profile would be good? I'm basically looking for a cheaper version of the Festool table top

4: I'm going to use Briwax on the frame but is it a good idea to wax the top and the holes?

5: Does anyone know how to make an equivalent of the the Festool fixed clamp? http://www.axminster.co.uk/festool-fixed-clamps-mft-sp


I'd like to make it as multifunctional as possible, so any ideas would be much appreciated. I'd also like to make it pocket hole clamping friendly

 

[petermillard]

1: Should I use a small round over cutter with the router around the top of each hole?

The light chamfer round the top of 'original' MFT tops is to help make the festool clamps easier to insert and remove; at 54mm thick, I don't think you'll be fitting anything other than bench dogs in there, so I wouldn't worry about it, personally...

2: ...I understand that I can't screw directly in to the MDF...

Huh? If that was true then every bookcase, every cabinet, every wardrobe, every alcove unit, every set of shelves, every door and every kitchen I've made in the last 15 years would be falling apart. They aren't. You can.

...so I'm hoping the Ash will not only look good but will also hold the tracking or profile. If this is OK, will gluing alone be OK for the Ash trim, or should I add a few Dominos as well?

If you have a Domino, bang a few in - why not?

3: Can anyone recommend which tracking or aluminim profile would be good? I'm basically looking for a cheaper version of the Festool table top

The Rutlands 3/4" T-track will take the Festool clamps - but not, I think, the Axi versions of the quick clamp; I can check tomorrow when I'm back in the workshop, but I seem to remember they don't quite fit.

4: I'm going to use Briwax on the frame but is it a good idea to wax the top and the holes?

Lots of debate on Festool forums about this; I don't, some folks do. To me the top is a consumable, but if yours is a permanent fixture, then I'd consider taking more care of it.

5: Does anyone know how to make an equivalent of the the Festool fixed clamp? http://www.axminster.co.uk/festool-fixed-clamps-mft-sp

No. You can do all kinds of work-arounds with bench dogs and quick clamps/duo clamps, but the Festool ones work so well; sometimes you just have to buy something that works well.

I'd like to make it as multifunctional as possible, so any ideas would be much appreciated. I'd also like to make it pocket hole clamping friendly

If you haven't already, then take a look at the MFTC - http://www.benchworks.be/mftc.html - lots of good ideas there for a small workbench / cart.

HTH Pete.

 

[Wizard9999]

If you haven't already, then take a look at the MFTC - http://www.benchworks.be/mftc.html - lots of good ideas there for a small workbench / cart.

HTH Pete.

This is a really helpful link Pete, thanks =D> Just a shame that on my iPad the site seems to show light brown text on a light or mid brown background, so I can't read it and have just been looking at the pictures. I'll try later on my laptop and see if it is any clearer. I fancy something along the lines of a lower cost MFT/3, so this is all very helpful for providing ideas.

 

[PeteG]

Thank you for the help and advice Pete, I really appreciate it

1: Should I use a small round over cutter with the router around the top of each hole?

The light chamfer round the top of 'original' MFT tops is to help make the festool clamps easier to insert and remove; at 54mm thick, I don't think you'll be fitting anything other than bench dogs in there, so I wouldn't worry about it, personally...

I'll leave them as is then, although I may give the edges a light sanding.

2: ...I understand that I can't screw directly in to the MDF...

Huh? If that was true then every bookcase, every cabinet, every wardrobe, every alcove unit, every set of shelves, every door and every kitchen I've made in the last 15 years would be falling apart. They aren't. You can.

I see, I was under the impression that MDF would delaminate. The only time I've used screws on MDF was on an upright jig for the router table several weeks back, I'd knocked the jig off the table within a couple of days and most of the screws had popped out. They actually looked more like wall plugs with the amount of MDF they had attached, and the MDF had split in line connecting the screw holes in a daisy chain. Perhaps I'd used the wrong screws, they were the gold ones from screwfix, I think the thread is serrated.

...so I'm hoping the Ash will not only look good but will also hold the tracking or profile. If this is OK, will gluing alone be OK for the Ash trim, or should I add a few Dominos as well?

If you have a Domino, bang a few in - why not?

Sounds good Pete. Should I glue the Ash on first and then cut the mortice using the 10 x 50 Dominos?

3: Can anyone recommend which tracking or aluminum profile would be good? I'm basically looking for a cheaper version of the Festool table top

The Rutlands 3/4" T-track will take the Festool clamps - but not, I think, the Axi versions of the quick clamp; I can check tomorrow when I'm back in the workshop, but I seem to remember they don't quite fit.

Appreciated Pete. So a couple of lengths of T-track set lengths ways with in the table top with the Festool clamps!

4: I'm going to use Briwax on the frame but is it a good idea to wax the top and the holes?

Lots of debate on Festool forums about this; I don't, some folks do. To me the top is a consumable, but if yours is a permanent fixture, then I'd consider taking more care of it.

I'll go with the Briwax then, hadn't planned to be replacing the top every few months

5: Does anyone know how to make an equivalent of the the Festool fixed clamp? http://www.axminster.co.uk/festool-fixed-clamps-mft-sp

No. You can do all kinds of work-arounds with bench dogs and quick clamps/duo clamps, but the Festool ones work so well; sometimes you just have to buy something that works well.

I would have used the loyalty points I have with D&M Tools towards the fixed clamps, but I see they only fit a 20mm hole, and they have a securing knob that attaches from underneath, my top may be too thick!

I'd like to make it as multifunctional as possible, so any ideas would be much appreciated. I'd also like to make it pocket hole clamping friendly

If you haven't already, then take a look at the MFTC - http://www.benchworks.be/mftc.html - lots of good ideas there for a small workbench / cart.

HTH Pete.

Hadn't seen these before Pete, thank you for the link.

 

[rdesign]

5: Does anyone know how to make an equivalent of the the Festool fixed clamp? http://www.axminster.co.uk/festool-fixed-clamps-mft-sp

No. You can do all kinds of work-arounds with bench dogs and quick clamps/duo clamps, but the Festool ones work so well; sometimes you just have to buy something that works well.

I would have used the loyalty points I have with D&M Tools towards the fixed clamps, but I see they only fit a 20mm hole, and they have a securing knob that attaches from underneath, my top may be too thick!

the knobs rant needed underneath very few people use them hold great just in the hole like a dog

 

[bugbear]

That looks like my WolfCraft drill guide - nice use of it!

post223345.html?hilit=%20which%20stand%20#p223345

BugBear

 

[PeteG]

5: Does anyone know how to make an equivalent of the the Festool fixed clamp? http://www.axminster.co.uk/festool-fixed-clamps-mft-sp

No. You can do all kinds of work-arounds with bench dogs and quick clamps/duo clamps, but the Festool ones work so well; sometimes you just have to buy something that works well.

I would have used the loyalty points I have with D&M Tools towards the fixed clamps, but I see they only fit a 20mm hole, and they have a securing knob that attaches from underneath, my top may be too thick!

the knobs rant needed underneath very few people use them hold great just in the hole like a dog

Appreciate the information rdesign, shame they couldn't have made them to fit 19mm holes though!

That looks like my WolfCraft drill guide - nice use of it!

post223345.html?hilit=%20which%20stand%20#p223345

BugBear

Hello bugbear. Mine is a Bosch version, quite expensive for what it is being well over £100.00, but It's well made and not very heavy. Plus it was a Christmas present from our lass a couple of years ago, so I enjoy using it even more.

 

[Waka]

Pete

There is a company that produces a folding workbench with a top similar to the Festool MFT, it has the same hole size,for the life of me I can't remember the name, hopefully someone on the forum will point you in the right direction. Come on guys help me out.

The whole point of my ramblings is, they have a similar clamp to the festal one at half the price.

 

[Wizard9999]

If you haven't already, then take a look at the MFTC - http://www.benchworks.be/mftc.html - lots of good ideas there for a small workbench / cart.

HTH Pete.

This is a really helpful link Pete, thanks =D> Just a shame that on my iPad the site seems to show light brown text on a light or mid brown background, so I can't read it and have just been looking at the pictures. I'll try later on my laptop and see if it is any clearer. I fancy something along the lines of a lower cost MFT/3, so this is all very helpful for providing ideas.

Just got around to looking on my laptop and it is fine via that. I hit the link to the youTube video showing his MFTC - it is total bl*&$y genius! If anyone is thinking of making something like this Iand you haven't seen it I really would recommend taking a look at the video.

Terry.

 

[PeteG]

Pete

There is a company that produces a folding workbench with a top similar to the Festool MFT, it has the same hole size,for the life of me I can't remember the name, hopefully someone on the forum will point you in the right direction. Come on guys help me out.

The whole point of my ramblings is, they have a similar clamp to the festal one at half the price.

Thanks Waka I've just ordered a pack of four T-tracks from Rutlands so clamps would be good. I have a couple of large toggle clamps doing nothing, so may adapt these to run down the sides.

 

[Waka]

Pete

Just remembered it's the Walco 4 Professional.

 

[bugbear]

Linky to the clamps.

http://www.walko.nl/index1.html

EDIT; look who's selling the bench!

http://www.festool.com.au/WALKO-4-Professional-MKII

BugBear

 

[Phil Pascoe]

A bit of an upmarket Workmate?

 

[Wizard9999]

EDIT; look who's selling the bench!

http://www.festool.com.au/WALKO-4-Professional-MKII

BugBear

And for more than they're selling an MFT/3 for :-s

 

[Jacob]

Manoeuvrable?
Too much so - those castors will make it impossible to use. A sack trolley could be better - get one end on it and manoeuvre it from the other end. Is it that heavy anyway? It looks quite small - just lift it up and carry/drag it?
Finish.
A smear of linseed oil will help to keep it clean - glue and paint easier to remove without removing the surface as well.
Bench dogs.
Wood much better then metal. And free - make your own from scrap. They don't blunt tools and when looking a bit tatty can be trimmed back to a perfect new surface.

I was amazed at the hilarious WALKO-4 Professional MKII bench! Basically a posh B&D workmate, which were always total cr|ap to begin with. Gadget world! Some silly person will buy one no doubt.

 

[petermillard]

I was under the impression that MDF would delaminate...

Best screws I've found for screwing into MDF edges are Spax-M - well worth the money if you use MDF.

Should I glue the Ash on first and then cut the mortice using the 10 x 50 Dominos?

Personally I'd cut the dominos and dry-fit it all, then do the glue-up.

As others have said, the Festool 'fixed clamp' typically doesn't need the fixing knob underneath, but it does require the (Festool) standard 20mm hole - you could probably grind a pair down to fit a 19mm hole with a bit of abrasive and some really dull telly

BTW I checked and the Axminster quick lever rail clamps *do* fit the Rutlands T-track, albeit snugly.

@ Waka - thanks for mentioning the Walko quick clamps; I didn't know they did their own version. Available at Slingers for £40/pair - here. Clearly it's the fixing knob that nobody uses that costs the extra

HTH

 

[PeteG]

Manoeuvrable?
Too much so - those castors will make it impossible to use. A sack trolley could be better - get one end on it and manoeuvre it from the other end. Is it that heavy anyway? It looks quite small - just lift it up and carry/drag it?
Finish.
A smear of linseed oil will help to keep it clean - glue and paint easier to remove without removing the surface as well.
Bench dogs.
Wood much better then metal. And free - make your own from scrap. They don't blunt tools and when looking a bit tatty can be trimmed back to a perfect new surface.

I was amazed at the hilarious WALKO-4 Professional MKII bench! Basically a posh B&D workmate, which were always total cr|ap to begin with. Gadget world! Some silly person will buy one no doubt.

Hello Jacob I understand what you mean regarding the castors and no doubt they'll need replacing at some point. Size wise, I'd call it compact, the top measuring 39" x 24". It's quite heavy, but lifting one end isn't a problem. Appreciate the tip on the linseed oil, would it be easier to keep clean using linseed oil instead of Briwax?

I was under the impression that MDF would delaminate...

Best screws I've found for screwing into MDF edges are Spax-M - well worth the money if you use MDF.

Should I glue the Ash on first and then cut the mortice using the 10 x 50 Dominos?

Personally I'd cut the dominos and dry-fit it all, then do the glue-up.

As others have said, the Festool 'fixed clamp' typically doesn't need the fixing knob underneath, but it does require the (Festool) standard 20mm hole - you could probably grind a pair down to fit a 19mm hole with a bit of abrasive and some really dull telly

BTW I checked and the Axminster quick lever rail clamps *do* fit the Rutlands T-track, albeit snugly.

@ Waka - thanks for mentioning the Walko quick clamps; I didn't know they did their own version. Available at Slingers for £40/pair - here. Clearly it's the fixing knob that nobody uses that costs the extra

HTH

Thank you again Pete, much appreciated. I see Screwfix are now stocking the Spax screws http://www.screwfix.com/search?search=spax+mdf+screw They stock one size in four lengths, the smallest being 4 x 45, so I guess I'll try them for screwing the T-track down.
Sorry to ask about the Domino again, would you do a through mortice? My way of thinking is, if I come to attach anything to the Ash, I can see where the Dominos are.

The Walko clamps have been ordered, so should have them tomorrow. I spoke to a chap at Slingers who said they have two flat sides so shouldn't take too much sanding down to make them fit a 19mm hole

 

[bugbear]

The Walko clamps have been ordered, so should have them tomorrow. I spoke to a chap at Slingers who said they have two flat sides so shouldn't take too much sanding down to make them fit a 19mm hole

At two-for-forty quid, they're a lot cheaper than APTC supplied Veritas Wonder Dogs - £35 EACH.

BugBear

 

[petermillard]

Sorry to ask about the Domino again, would you do a through mortice? My way of thinking is, if I come to attach anything to the Ash, I can see where the Dominos are.

Depends on how thick your lipping is; regular domino max plunge is (I think) 28mm, so take away the lipping thickness and that's how deep your doms will go into the worktop - unless you double plunge, of course, with and without the lip. Also, aesthetics count; how do you feel about seeing exposed Dominos? I quite like them, personally, but some folks don't...

Are you planning on routing the T-track into the lip, i.e. around the edge of the worktop MFT-style? If so, why not just screw the lipping on behind the T-track? Or just through the T-track, come to that??

HTH Pete

 

[PeteG]

Sorry to ask about the Domino again, would you do a through mortice? My way of thinking is, if I come to attach anything to the Ash, I can see where the Dominos are.

Depends on how thick your lipping is; regular domino max plunge is (I think) 28mm, so take away the lipping thickness and that's how deep your doms will go into the worktop - unless you double plunge, of course, with and without the lip. Also, aesthetics count; how do you feel about seeing exposed Dominos? I quite like them, personally, but some folks don't...

Are you planning on routing the T-track into the lip, i.e. around the edge of the worktop MFT-style? If so, why not just screw the lipping on behind the T-track? Or just through the T-track, come to that??

HTH Pete

Hello Pete.

The track and clamps have arrived, think I've ordered the wrong track or the wrong Festool clamps?

I don't mind the Dominos showing, think it would add to the design although now I've had a look at all the pieces together, you wouldn't see much of the Dominos if the track is attached to the Ash edging.
I'm not right sure at this moment where to put the track to make the best use of it, I had planned to run two sections inserted and off centre as in the image, with the other two on the edge of the table top or
on the side edgings, MFT style as you mentioned. I'd like to make some sort of brackets/stops that line up along two sides, similar to the Kreg clamping table where the work piece rests against. These would be handy for when I use the pocket holes. I also plan on making a number of wooden dogs that my 8' x 2' sheets can rest on when cross cutting so the table isn't damaged, and some sort of MFT style saw rail.