multico tm tips

[johnnyb]

I've had(about 12 months) and rebuilt a multico and put whitehill combi blocks on. it really is a outstanding machine. I've made over 20 doors, Gates, windows etc.
first off I don't tend to do a 4 inch tenon in one go as it seems excessive. can I?
cutting past the halfway point feels...wrong.
secondly how exactly do I use the combi heads. the rebate bit for square and offset shoulders but what would I need for scribing etc. making a door frame id need a rebate block and a 1/2 inch deep mould(like a grecian ogee)
on the tenoner would i make the tenon square first using both blocks then put the scribe cutters on(leaving all the rebate stuff on) and readjust for the scribe cut. thinking about it that wouldn't work as the scribe needs to stick out past the square shoulders. so I'm guessing one head has the rebate and the other runs the scribes and limiters.
finally does anyone have any set up tips as it takes a few attempts to dial in. I did think about having a flip stop for between the shoulders distance datum.
but the pain is all the other settings. there is a threaded rod gauge that goes between the heads(like huge router depth gauge)
many thanks in advance

 

[johnnyb]

I've had a look with respect to more repeatable settings and its obvious the threaded rod if its set so the gap is the exact distance between top and bottom head the size of the tenon can be repeated fairly quickly using a gauge that fits into the mortise. the offset shoulder distance tends to be the bottom head 1/2 inch in to fill the rebate. i reckon some hardwood gauges would speed up that setting as well.
still unsure about the scribing though I might phone whitehill to ask about that.

 

[deema]

The threaded rod should be set such that you can’t under any circumstances adjust the blocks so they come into contact with each other. You should fix it at this distance. It will get very exciting if you fiddle around with the setting of the rod and the two blocks come into contact whilst rotating!
Best practice is to only cut in one pass tenon depths up to half the width of the block. For deeper tenons just do it in multiple passes. Once past half way, the cutter is trying to pull the work into the cutter which can occur irrespective of how tightly you’ve clamped it if it finds something really hard! Again, can get a bit exciting!
Scribed tenons can be done either completely with scribe cutters or as you suggest firstly making a square tenon and then scribing. If you do it all with the scribes you will blunt them quickly, if you do it the other way you have two setups. Depends on how valuable your time is. The carbide square cutters last and and are cheap, the scribing cutters are in comparison very expensive.
The quickest and I found the most accurate way of setting the tenon was to drill tap and add another threaded rod separate to the safety rod. Next, setup and make a tenon that fits perfectly to one of your mortice chisels. Next, adjust the new rod so that you can use the mortice chisel as the setting jig for the tenon width. Lock the rod.
there will be a little jig for setting the height of the carbide square tenon cutters, you should use it when replacing the cutters. It ensures accuracy and that the nickers are actually working.

 

[katellwood]

Deema do you have a photo of your setup.
I rely on the pitch of the height adjustment rods which if I recall is 2mm and use a vernier gauge on the tenon
Another suggestion which I use is an adjustable splinter guard with a length of extrusion fixed to the back fence then the splinter guard attached to the extrusion with counter sunk set screws thereby allowing it to be adjusted up each time a new setup is needed

 

[johnnyb]

deema thanks for you advice especially re the safety rod. I think i will drill and tap for another rod as its such a simple solution. the top head usually stays where it is and I only move the bottom so on gauge would do for the offset and one for straight. I knew going past the middle the machine didn't sound "right". doing it in 2+ passes is much nicer.
in 3 phase it seems a powerful machine is it 2× 3kw motors. im exploring the limits of my 4kw spindle (t40n)at the moment I don't like doing a 45mm by 13mm rebate in sapele in one go but the machine seems fine with it!

 

[johnnyb]

one other thing is on a framed ledge and brace door its much easier to rebate for the t and g before tenoning the top rail. but it does smash one side of the rebate out. I've taken to putting a tight fitting piece of wood in the rebate to stop the breakout but screw it into the rebate as otherwise no matter how tight it will be it will be ejected by the cutter(and the screw hole can't be seen)

 

[deema]

I now have a Sedgwick 3 head Tenoner, and unfortunately don’t have any photos of the setup I had on my Multico. When I restore Mukticos I try to restore them to as ‘factory‘ condition and don’t add any setting aids.

Id appreciate knowing what the advantage is of rebating the top rail before tenoning? I usually tenon and then rebate / mould. I setup the spindle and run it in tandem with the tenoner?

 

[johnnyb]

the only advantage is that i can fine tune the shoulder offsets so the doors not twisted and its only really one unmoulded cut . maybe I'm wrong being self trained in using machines im not sure. how would you set up for framed l and b?

 

[johnnyb]

I also use the rebate to help set the tenoner top head thinking about it. ie the scribe just touches the rebate.

 

[Doug71]

one other thing is on a framed ledge and brace door its much easier to rebate for the t and g before tenoning the top rail. but it does smash one side of the rebate out. I've taken to putting a tight fitting piece of wood in the rebate to stop the breakout but screw it into the rebate as otherwise no matter how tight it will be it will be ejected by the cutter(and the screw hole can't be seen)

I would rebate and mortise the stiles then set the tenoner up to these. I would then tenon the top rail (which is still square), once tenoned I would go back to the spindle moulder to rebate the top rail.

This is why it's better to have a separate tenoner and spindle moulder so you don't need to keep changing set ups.

 

[johnnyb]

its bloody obvious now you've said it! I do sometimes rebate then groove though that would lose the rebate but I could groove after tenoning.

 

[deema]

I’m with Doug, same method. Only one note, I mortice whilst it’s all in the square then rebate / mould the styles, never the other way around. The reason is that, if I rebate and then mortice, I’m usually after the mortice being adjacent to to the side of the rebate or over lapping it the rebate can cause the mortice chisel to wander off line as it shifts sideways towards the side of least resistance....lwhere the rebate is. I’ve had mortices that haven’t been straight as a consequence and had to scrap the piece. If I mortice first I avoid any issues.

 

[johnnyb]

I usually leave a tiny whisker when morticing between the mortice and rebate for the same reason! but morticing before is sensible