Motice Help

[Jeff Gorman]

Mr Grimsdale wrote:

Here's my description of morticing (as I was taught)

Much the same as Jeff's, except no levering, and I'm not sure what Jeff's starter trench is for.

I was taught that it helped to ensure that you started the chisel exactly between the lines, but I realize that it also helps to get a clean exit hole.

Jeff
amgron.clara.net
_____

 

[mr grimsdale]

Yes that makes sense. I'll do it too, next time!

 

[mtt.tr]

Becuase i lack in mortice chisels i chop gently then remove the waste with no levering. I flip the chisel up the other and basically plane the chips out.

 

[ajbell]

Hi All

Some great explanaitions on both Derek's and Jeff's sites.

I will soon be the owner of some mortice chisels - thanks Rob for
greasing that slope a bit more!

I think I will try the trad methods as explained rather than the predrilling or router methods.
(so next I will a shoulder plane and a router plane and all those fancy saws for the tenons?)

Andy

 

[woodbloke]

I will soon be the owner of some mortice chisels - thanks Rob for
greasing that slope a bit more!

Andy

My pleasure :lol: ...always happy to do a bit of 'Slope' greasing now and again :lol: - Rob

 

[mr grimsdale]

Aha so that's what all the 'PM sent' whispering at the back was!

 

[ajbell]

Mr G

When I saw the PM I thought Rob was going to share some secret
mortice method with me. Instead he was luring me with some shiney new tools.

But what is worse he then posts that he uses a router!
I think I will cancel the cheque.

Andy

 

[woodbloke]

Mr G

When I saw the PM I thought Rob was going to share some secret
mortice method with me. Instead he was luring me with some shiney new tools.

But what is worse he then posts that he uses a router!
I think I will cancel the cheque.

Andy

Andy...that's no secret. There are plenty of ocaissions on the forum over the last couple of years where I've openly shown (even with some pics) how I cut mortises.
That said, there are at least four ways that I can think of, equally as good, to cut the joint. It's just that I prefer to cut them with a router and then square out the ends, simply for the sort of m/t joints that I like to cut:

the router in use and the finished joint

Doing it with a router actually takes longer than chopping them out by hand with a mortise chisel, which is how I did it for over thirty years - Rob

 

[Paul Chapman]

Andy,

If you want to see it being done, there's an excellent DVD by Frank Klausz called "Making mortise and tenon joints", in which he demonstrates how to cut the mortise using three methods - by hand; using a router (for which he shows an excellent shop-made jig for holding the workpiece); and using a hollow chisel mortiser.

Well worth getting if you want to see it being done really well.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[big soft moose]

[
Andy...that's no secret. There are plenty of ocaissions on the forum over the last couple of years where I've openly shown (even with some pics) how I cut mortises.
That said, there are at least four ways that I can think of, equally as good, to cut the joint. It's just that I prefer to cut them with a router and then square out the ends, simply for the sort of m/t joints that I like to cut:

i know its heresey in the handtool forum - but i prefer to use a morticer. - having sold our multico M and bought a sedgewick 571 we now discover that the sedgie is 20amp which means we wont be able to use it till after our' shop move (existing shop is 13amp only and we arent spending money on premises we are going to move out of shortly)

this meant we spent a large chunk of today cutting sign mortices 1" by 5" in green oak and worse eco deck by hand- never again, tommorow morning i'm off to axminster to buy an AWBM12 to tide us over to the shop move

 

[mr grimsdale]

...
i know its heresey in the handtool forum - but i prefer to use a morticer. -

Me too, but I used to do a lot by hand and still have a go now and then, to remind myself.

having sold our multico M and bought a sedgewick 571 we now discover that the sedgie is 20amp ...

A temporary circuit for the one machine shouldn't cost a lot I would have thought. 1 cable, one fuseway, one socket. Mind you I'm no sparky.

 

[big soft moose]

A temporary circuit for the one machine shouldn't cost a lot I would have thought. 1 cable, one fuseway, one socket. Mind you I'm no sparky.

true but the average sparky will charge about a ton just for getting out of bed and as we're hopefully moving in a couple of months and i'd rather spend the hundred or so notes on a second morticer (allbeit a little one ) which we will then have as a standby if anything goes pear shaped with the sedgie at a later date or if we have a busy spell and need two

also the sedgie is bloody heavy and will need to be bolted down and our current 'shop floor is bobbins

 

[Karl]

Andy,

If you want to see it being done, there's an excellent DVD by Frank Klausz called "Making mortise and tenon joints", in which he demonstrates how to cut the mortise using three methods - by hand; using a router (for which he shows an excellent shop-made jig for holding the workpiece); and using a hollow chisel mortiser.

Well worth getting if you want to see it being done really well.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

Cheers Paul - I wasn't aware of that DVD, so must get myself a copy.

Cheers

Karl

 

[afreegreek]

I do it by drilling exactly the same size hole as the finished width.. 3/8" mortise = 3/8" drill bit. drill right to the line on each end and hog out the material with the drill overlapping holes a little more than half way.. you want to have something for the brad point or forstner point to hold to.. then I just use a paring cut to knock the high points between down to smooth and square up the corners. I use a very sharp chisel at about 25 degrees and take light cuts not much thicker than a plane shaving... zip zip zip.. no pounding, no prying. on through mortises I drill and pare from the show side in and finish off the last little bit of the corners with the cut on the edge of a file rather than a chisel.. (the last bit, not the whole corner)

 

[matthewwh]

Briefly tried out the newly agreed GrimGorman method last night with a prototype of the new mortice chisels from Narex and it works beautifully, very much faster, and the finished result is indistinguishable from the levering method. - I was concerned that the mortice sides would be cleaned better by the sharp sides of the chisel as the waste was levered out but it would appear not.

The shallow trench works well as you do all of the accurate, fingertippy, up-close, positioning cuts in one go and thereafter you can feel where the tool needs to be and keep the whole job at arms length. (bigger swings > faster progress)

The only thing I did differently was to chop down through the middle of the waste afterwards (lengthwise cut) with a bevel edge to make it easier to remove from the blind mortice. Even so I'm wondering if some sort of small swan neck chisel would be worthwhile just for fetching out the waste. I still can't work out why they are curved rather than v shaped at the end?

Total time for 3 mortices about 8 minutes. Given the woeful quality of budget morticing machines I reckon chopping by hand is by far the best method until you are ready to invest half a grand in a proper cast iron morticing machine.

 

[big soft moose]

until you are ready to invest half a grand in a proper cast iron morticing machine.

and the rest - our sedgie was £1050, and that was ex vat and with a negotiated discount

 

[dannykaye]

chopping mortises by hand is easy but I cut a lot of 3"x1"x3.5" holes and so I wouldn't be without my mortiser its a fox f14651 but looks remarkably like an axminster AW12BM tho I paid around £200 so maybe not identical. Bit fiddly to set up but works beautifully...

 

[bugbear]

The shallow trench works well as you do all of the accurate, fingertippy, up-close, positioning cuts in one go and thereafter you can feel where the tool needs to be and keep the whole job at arms length. (bigger swings > faster progress)

I don't know how old that technique is - it's certainly in Micheal Dunbar's book "Restoring, Tuning & Using Classic Woodworking Tools " (1989)

Older books seem to think morticing so obvious that they don't describe it in detail.

BugBear

 

[Jeff Gorman]

Bugbear wrote:

I don't know how old that technique is - it's certainly in Micheal Dunbar's book "Restoring, Tuning & Using Classic Woodworking Tools " (1989)

I was taught this by 'Cramper' Lewis at Loughborough sometime between 1946 & 47.

Jeff

 

[TobyB]

Thanks for your link Jeff - found this really helpful - recently had my first proper go at mortices making a table (pictures in projects forum) using proper chisels ... could have done a LOT better if I'd seen this before ... went back and took ideas from your pages to practice the same in some leftover off-cuts ... MUCH cleaner and straighter sides, good and square results, with a lot less hassle. And no bruised ends to clear up at the end.

Quick thought - CI morticers Matthew at WH provided me with at an extremely reasonable price worked very nicely indeed ... only now am I appreciating and understanding subtle bits of their geometry after reading Jeffs stuff ... and maybe Ray Isles or LN versions would be even better ... but a lot more expensive, "diminishing returns", especially in hands of my skill!

I'm going to do some more, now I've got the tools and an idea how to use them!