Morticing

[The Restorer]

OK boys and girls heres my query,

I've currently got an Axminster 1903 hollow chisel morticer, but it's a bit of a PITA as you move the workpiece relative to the chisel. i.e. you set the fence and move the piece to be morticed. It hasn't got the lovely fore and aft and side to side movements.

Now i, as well as restoring furniture, also make fine furniture and want to be able to set up and repeatably cut mortices without spending ages setting the damn thing up. I have a woodrat, which while great for tenoning is as bad for mortising as you have to get the mortise rail thingy out, set it up do various test cuts to get the mortise dead centre so the tenon fits and the edges of each are in perfect alignment.

Can anyone suggest a machine, preferably that they've actually used (not just read a review on) that they things is the nearest thing to mortice heaven?
What about the fancy trend thingy that does the tenon as well, is at as good as it sounds?
At the moment i'm inclined to go with the best moricer i've used the big old Sedgwick, but can it cope with fine work (6mm mortice and tenon in 15mm stock with repeatable accuracy? Or i could get the slot morticer for my Felder, anyone used a slot moritcer?

Thanks for your help.

Steve.

 

[Scott]

What about the fancy trend thingy that does the tenon as well, is at as good as it sounds?

Not really! It needs test cuts to make sure you've got it right, there's too much slack between the guide bush and the guide for my liking and it's quite easy to get the alignment of the mortice or tenon slightly off.

Just my 2p worth on the thing

Cheers

 

[Scrit]

Hi Steve

I've currently got an Axminster 1903 hollow chisel morticer, but it's a bit of a PITA as you move the workpiece relative to the chisel. i.e. you set the fence and move the piece to be morticed. It hasn't got the lovely fore and aft and side to side movements.

You might want to start looking for a Sedgwick 571 or a Multico M on eBay, then. A couple of people here have bought Sedgwick's that way and can comment from personal experience (are you there Felderman? :lol: )

You might want to consider going a bit further with a moving head mortiser where the head moves in the X and Y axes - Multico make three models of these: the PM20, PM22 and MCD. I have an MCD and it's a bit of a curate's egg - for example it can mortise a lock opening in a built-up door (which means it will also end drill rails), but it's a bit lightweight for continuous production work despite being top of the range, on the other hand it's about the only mortiser around which can be converted into a drill - either a standard drill press, an in-line dowel borer with 7 drills or a 3 or 4 drill hinge borer depending on which head is fitted. So for versatility it's pretty unbeatable. Foe that reason it might be worth looking at one of these three (or the PM22T, a variant of the PM20 which can do horizontal/angle mortising - useful for stair stringers)

Now I, as well as restoring furniture, also make fine furniture and want to be able to set up and repeatably cut mortices without spending ages setting the damn thing up.

In that case you really need a machine with the work/head movements. I find my MCD quicker to set-up than a conventional moving table mortiser

Or I could get the slot morticer for my Felder, anyone used a slot morticer?

I'm not sure I'd recommend that. I've read various "anti" comments about the slot mortiser, mainly that it can be a bit sloppy and inaccurate. Some comments to that effect have been posted on the Felder User Group web site in the USA in the past. From experience I can say that Inca used to make a little jewel of a slot mortiser attachment to go on their saw benches and planers. Sadly Inca are no longer available, although once again a secondhand machine may turn-up if you look for it.

Regards

Scrit

 

[The Restorer]

Thanks for the advice Scrit.

The Sedgwick 571 is one of the beasties i've looked at. Used one in the past, but that was more for joinery work and not too sure of it's capabilities for fine cabinet work.
Also been researching the big Jet morticer. It had a good write up in F+C magazine (but then so did the old style Hammer machines, and that's along story! :wink: ).
How about the Leigh jig? I know it's dear, but then if it does what it says on the tin.......

Thanks

Steve.

 

[Scrit]

How about the Leigh jig? I know it's dear, but then if it does what it says on the tin.......

Yes, but it's still fundamentally just an (expensive) router jig that produces round-end mortises, for which you'll need round end tenons. So you fancy buying a Rye round end tenoner, then? :lol: In any case I could just about buy TWO secondhand 571s for that price (alright then, one and a load of tooling)

Back to reality. If it's production then a square chisel mortiser is going to be quicker and easier to set up and a lot quicker to use than a router jig, IMHO. If speed/volume isn't an issue, then doubtless the Leigh jig may be ideal - but whilst I reckon a 571 would still be going in 20 years time with parts available (not sure about the Chaiwanese Jet), will the Leigh? Sorry, but I'm looking at this from the business angle (as ever......)

Scrit

 

[ProShop]

Hi Steve

A couple of people here have bought Sedgwick's that way and can comment from personal experience (are you there Felderman? :lol: )Scrit

Ooooh, I heard my name mentioned .

Funnily enough I cut about 20 1/4" mortices the other day for someone, using my s/hand Sedgwick 571 that I recently restored and using a Draper Expert chisel in some oak rails, and customer well pleased.


I don't find the Sedgwick too time consuming to set up, it came with the mortice length adjusting stops.

All told I very pleased with it, a good solid reliable accurate machine.

I'm using the Japanese style chisels, but I'm reliably informed that the English pattern is favoured by cabinet & fine furniture makers which might help.

I know a man who is probably selling the cheapest single phase 571 brand new. But there has been a fair few s/hand ones on Ebay recently so might be worth a look on there.

Hope this helps.

 

[Newbie_Neil]

Hi Steve

Aragorn used the Leigh and you should look here and here.

IIRC he did 96 M&T's in an afternoon.

HTH

Cheers
Neil

 

[The Restorer]

Thanks again scrit.

I'm definately trying to look at it from a professional makers point of view.
At the moment it can take up to 3/4 of an hour :shock: to set up for a run of mortises, not including replacing the chisel etc.
I don't really like the router anyway (too noisy) but was trying to keep the options open. Round ended tenons was the drawback, so tends to rule out the slot morticer as well.

Felderman
As the Sedgwick uses only one wheel (from memory you pull the wheel toward you to engage one direction and push it in for the other) do you find that you accidentally alter the settings? Have you had a go at mortising where by the two components are the same thickness with the mortise centred? How easy was it to get the edges to align?
Who is this mystery man with the single phase Sedgwick? Can you PM me with details? I'm looking for single phase (don't want the hassle you had converting :wink: ).

Any help much appreciated.

Steve.

 

[Scrit]

As the Sedgwick uses only one wheel (from memory you pull the wheel toward you to engage one direction and push it in for the other) do you find that you accidentally alter the settings? Have you had a go at mortising where by the two components are the same thickness with the mortise centred? How easy was it to get the edges to align?

Hi Steve

If you're unhappy with the Sedgwick approach, then the Multico M like this one have two wheels. It's a design often copied by the Chinese but rarely bettered. The model before the M was called the K or K1. The older small Mulicos like this one also have two hand wheels. These are all out of production now, but you'll find a lot of Multico stuff is single phase because their user base (the old MUltico firm from when they were in Redhioll, Surrey) was predominently small joinery/cabinetmaking shops and well-healed hobby woodworkers.

Scrit

 

[Nick W]

I have the Charnwood 1" morticer. No don't laugh, please. It's actually a good solid machine, with x-y table, and will cope with 1" mortice chisels as it says on the can (well plywood crate actually). It also comes with adaptors for most (all?) chisel shank sizes, and a set of chisels which are not great, but they work.

Re the crate, I screwed mine back together, put wheels on the bottom and the morticer on the top. Works a treat, good height, and saves dumping the ply! 8)

 

[SimonA]

http://www.axminster.co.uk/recno/5/product-Axminster-AW19FM-Floor-Standing-Morticer-369280.htm

What about the Axminster ones......their new range seems to be pretty good and the £1000 versions look like rebadged Sedwicks.

S

 

[The Restorer]

Simon,

Can't beleive a morticer like that can sell for £300, have you got one? Is it any good?
Yes the Axminster plus morticer is a rebadged Sedgwick 571, but the Sedgwick is under £1k where as the Axminster is nearer £1100 :shock: How have they managed that (apart from painting it white :roll:

Nick,

Don't think the SCharnwoods going to do the job, but thanks for the suggestion.

Scrit,

I've used a swivel head Multico a while back and liked it. I really think that the Sedgwick is the answer, just wasn't sure about the ease of set up and accuracy (waiting for Felderman to advise further.
The review of the Leigh jig is impressive, but as you say it's a router bolt on.

Thanks for your help everyone and keep em coming.

Steve.

 

[dennyk]

To my eternal regret I bought a Morticer from axminster it was the Perform CCM , To me it was a PITA, had a hell of a job doing repetitive morticers, the clamping system IMHO was crap. after using it on about 5 or 6 sessions of use , I gave it to someone in lieu of a Taxi fare.

I now have the Record RPM 75, and I am quite pleased with it, once the initial setup is done, repeat morticing is a breeze

 

[woodbloke]

OK boys and girls heres my query,

I've currently got an Axminster 1903 hollow chisel morticer, but it's a bit of a PITA as you move the workpiece relative to the chisel. i.e. you set the fence and move the piece to be morticed. It hasn't got the lovely fore and aft and side to side movements.


Thanks for your help.

Steve.

Hi - I had one of those, not a lot of good IMO - got rid of mine on fleabay recently, I'll be cutting mortices with my router in future - Rob

 

[Chris72]

Hi, I bought the sedgwick a few months ago,its a great machine,easy to set up simple and dependable.Like Scrit says,it will still be working in twenty or thirty years time!
Chris

 

[The Restorer]

Hi Chris,

What about the Sedgwick for fine cabinet type work, is it precise enough?
I know it can do joinery work till the cows come home, but it's the fine stuff that i do mostly.
Anyone know why the Axminster version is £100 over normal prices? (other than being painted white??!)

Thanks

Steve.

 

[Chris72]

Hi, cant see you having any problems with fine work,the 571 is very precise and you can limit the travel in pretty much any direction you like.
In truth I cant see how it could be made any better-its built like a tank!
I would guess the counter weight weighs about forty kilos,but I'm away from home at the mo so cant say for certain.
Chris

 

[rgkellam]

Does Multico still exist? Do they still manufacture the PM22T?

Can anyone point me to someone who still sells Multico products?

 

[AndyBoyd]

How about a slot morticer, I have a stand alone one (early Scheppach I think) it's easy to set up and works quickly and quietly.

Some planers also have the ability to have one as an accessory

 

[Scrit]

Does Multico still exist? Do they still manufacture the PM22T?

Can anyone point me to someone who still sells Multico products?

Yes. Manufacturing has now moved top France, but they still have a contact address and phone number in Harlow:

Multico Ltd
Paragon House
Flex Meadows, The Pinnacles
Harlow
Essex
CM19 5TJ

Tel: +44 (0) 1279 444212
Fax: +44 (0) 1279 444004

I know that Little Sheffield in Blackburn will supply their stuff, but I don't know anyone who stocks any longer. Did you know that Felder have sold Multico stuff under their name in several countries?

Scrit