Mortice chisels

[Jacob]

Has this video allready been showed in this thread? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQZsPs7jaPE&list=PL6yG0ZTQ9Z7bGcp73KnPk-KC17uH1fG1L

Cutting a mortise in less then 2 minutes, 5 cm deep. He makes a through mortise which is quicker then a blind one, but still, by the time you have your piece of wood positioned under the drill press, clamped it down, inserted the drill bit etc, this guy has allready mortised all four corners of a window frame.

David Weaver showed us a nice video too some days ago. Not quite as fast as the Chinese man, but that's how chopping a mortise should look like. No fuss, no extra tools, no extra whatever, just getting the job done. I can't find the link anymore. David?

I am now somewhere halfway my 30 M&T project and am starting to get the hang of it again. Chopping a mortise is now more fun and quicker then cutting the tenons.

What I want to get at, the mortise chisel wasn't invented as a joke. It is simply the best tool for the job. No drilling, and especially no paring of the sides! The mortise chisel produces a straight hole in one go. Every other operation just increases the possibility to make a mess of it and makes the job take longer.

Exactly!
Couldn't get the chap's accent in the video - was he from Newcastle?

 

[Corneel]

Probably.

 

[Corneel]

Ha, I did find David's video. Looks efficient to me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpT0KXc0FTY&feature=youtu.be

 

[Jacob]

Ha, I did find David's video. Looks efficient to me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpT0KXc0FTY&feature=youtu.be

Not too bad but a bit amateur fiddly - tapping away, stopping and starting with all that unnecessary levering.
Also it'd be better on the bench end so you can do it end on and keep the chisel lined up vertical.
A bit pedantic but you wouldn't be marking up after you've put the thing in the vice - all marking should be done beforehand.
And you wouldn't do it with a knife. Pencil or scribe.
Nor would you pull a mortice gauge towards you - it's better to push gauges on to the work so they stay in line better and not follow the grain
Basically the hammering should be more or less continuous - just a brief hesitation between moves of the chisel.
It's a bit like rip sawing - if you haven't got the fast and frantic speed idea then it's really slow.
I use the chisel the other way i.e. cut straight down the face of the previous cut - it's how I learnt dig trenches with a pick and shovel. Not sure if it'd make any difference either way. Except he seems to be trying to clean up the end with the bevel side!
You can see the clamping problem - at one point the workpiece moves a touch - if this happens much it'll leave a mark. Better to do it on the bench end without a clamp.
PS just had a go to remind myself of the bad old days - yes a clamp helps with small bits or you can't easily pull the chisel out when it's deep. Sitting on it is a good traditional one.
I wonder if in production mode with small pieces, some sort of foot operated hold-down would do it - just to hold it whilst you pull the chisel out

Marks; 5/10!

 

[Corneel]

I won't show a video of me chopping :lol:

 

[D_W]

Ha, I did find David's video. Looks efficient to me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpT0KXc0FTY&feature=youtu.be

Not too bad but a bit amateur fiddly - tapping away, stopping and starting with all that unnecessary levering.
Also it'd be better on the bench end so you can do it end on and keep the chisel lined up vertical.
A bit pedantic but you wouldn't be marking up after you've put the thing in the vice - all marking should be done beforehand.
And you wouldn't do it with a knife. Pencil or scribe.
Nor would you pull a mortice gauge towards you - it's better to push gauges on to the work so they stay in line better and not follow the grain
Basically the hammering should be more or less continuous - just a brief hesitation between moves of the chisel.
It's a bit like rip sawing - if you haven't got the fast and frantic speed idea then it's really slow.
I use the chisel the other way i.e. cut straight down the face of the previous cut - it's how I learnt dig trenches with a pick and shovel. Not sure if it'd make any difference either way. Except he seems to be trying to clean up the end with the bevel side!
You can see the clamping problem - at one point the workpiece moves a touch - if this happens much it'll leave a mark. Better to do it on the bench end without a clamp.
PS just had a go to remind myself of the bad old days - yes a clamp helps with small bits or you can't easily pull the chisel out when it's deep. Sitting on it is a good traditional one.
I wonder if in production mode with small pieces, some sort of foot operated hold-down would do it - just to hold it whilst you pull the chisel out

Marks; 5/10!

Of course it's amateur fiddly. I'm an amateur. I do pause at every first hammer in a mortise - I never planned that, it's just something I do to settle my mind that my first strike is between the lines and going where I want. If I could do a hundred of these in a row, I think I could eliminate the pauses and probably cut the time from four minutes and change to about two - and I'm sure that type of repetition would make each a bit more accurate than they are now. Not sure on the end cleaning with the bevel, I never did it before I tried it in the video, when I lack experience, I'm a constant tinkerer and I thought maybe that would do better to clean waste because of the levering. It does, but it's awkward.

I had the exact same thought about a foot operated hold down, though. It would be super handy for mortises, but I always have random thoughts like that and then realize that I ought to get a couple of hundred more mortises under my belt before I start theorizing on what would be good for production (when I don't do production). I don't agree on using the non-bevel side of the chisel, though, in the middle of a mortise, the bevel works too well. I used to hammer the chisel straight in like a nail and lean it forward as you're describing, but it doesn't go through material as easily.

(Kees - sorry if it was difficult to find the video. I made it unlisted, sort of my policy that I don't want to put up listed publicly-available videos of things that are already done or covered better elsewhere. Someone might get the idea that I put the video up because I thought I was good at it, and about the only thing I can do well is make a good plane in an amateurish way. I've already been told numerous times by different people that my videos are monkey-see-monkey do types with nothing original, and that I have a judgement problem thinking that they're fit to be posted at all - charlie tells me that, but he's not the only one. If you post any video on youtube that is seen by more than a dozen people, there's always a group who likes to send you messages and comments to clip your heels. If Ben Hogan were alive, I'm sure there would be plenty of people telling him what's wrong with his ball striking).

Separate random-thought side comment. Now that we have all of these phones that take fantastic video, anyway, I think it's useful for us to tape ourselves doing various things. It reminds me of the first time I taped myself playing guitar (after I had already played publicly plenty of times in my youth). Holy cow did I learn a lot.

Anyone else going to put up a video cutting a mortise similar to mine but neater and in half the time (should be easy for someone with experience).

 

[Corneel]

Videoing yourself is very usefull when trying to learn a craft or sport or someting else you do with your body. You always do things differently from what you think you are doing. Putting it up for public scrutiny does take a bunch of courage though, because as you say, there are plenty of couch surfers with stupid comments.

And I really like to clamp things down when mortising. The piece of wood is being pushed around too much for my liking. I use a holdfast, one wack and steady.

 

[D_W]

And I really like to clamp things down when mortising.

Me, too. When you use the bevel side of the chisel, if the material isn't clamped either by clamp or by butt or something, then there is no way the workpiece will stay still. I like it for marking, too - even though some may not. It lets you make deep marks without the workpiece moving.

 

[Jacob]

Sorry didn't realise David Weaver was our own D_W, in spite of the obvious clue!

 

[D_W]

Sorry didn't realise David Weaver was our own D_W, in spite of the obvious clue!

I am not offended by criticism at all!! It gives me and everyone else something to think about and learn from.

Given that you didn't know it was me, I'm surprised you didn't have worse to offer. I'm pretty happy with the 5/10 grade.

 

[bugbear]

Sorry didn't realise David Weaver was our own D_W, in spite of the obvious clue!

I am not offended by criticism at all!! It gives me and everyone else something to think about and learn from.

Given that you didn't know it was me, I'm surprised you didn't have worse to offer. I'm pretty happy with the 5/10 grade.

I'm looking forward to Jacob making a video showing us amateurs his proper "10/10" mortise technique, including how to mortise a piece of wood that deep and narrow without clamping it.

BugBear

 

[skipdiver]

Sorry didn't realise David Weaver was our own D_W, in spite of the obvious clue!

I am not offended by criticism at all!! It gives me and everyone else something to think about and learn from.

Given that you didn't know it was me, I'm surprised you didn't have worse to offer. I'm pretty happy with the 5/10 grade.

I do think that Americans view criticism differently to us more sensitive Englishmen. I make stuff for an American lady and it took some getting used to her. What i took as criticism, she merely saw as getting her point across and getting to where we needed to be. She didn't mean to offend but i was sometimes offended, which she thought "very English". Comments such as " that needs to change"- "that needs to go"- "that doesn't work for me" were said right off the bat with no preamble or softening of the blow. This is business was her take on it and now i've gotten used to it, it moves things along quicker.

 

[ED65]

Given the abundant evidence posted in these very forums I don't think that kind of 'directness' is a uniquely American trait Steve (homer)

 

[Jacob]

Sorry didn't realise David Weaver was our own D_W, in spite of the obvious clue!

I am not offended by criticism at all!! It gives me and everyone else something to think about and learn from.

Given that you didn't know it was me, I'm surprised you didn't have worse to offer. I'm pretty happy with the 5/10 grade.

I'm looking forward to Jacob making a video showing us amateurs his proper "10/10" mortise technique, including how to mortise a piece of wood that deep and narrow without clamping it.

BugBear

Stage fright. I'd probably cut a finger off.
how to mortise a piece of wood that deep and narrow without clamping it. Sit on it, like the chap from Newcastle (video above).

 

[D_W]

Sorry didn't realise David Weaver was our own D_W, in spite of the obvious clue!

I am not offended by criticism at all!! It gives me and everyone else something to think about and learn from.

Given that you didn't know it was me, I'm surprised you didn't have worse to offer. I'm pretty happy with the 5/10 grade.

I do think that Americans view criticism differently to us more sensitive Englishmen. I make stuff for an American lady and it took some getting used to her. What i took as criticism, she merely saw as getting her point across and getting to where we needed to be. She didn't mean to offend but i was sometimes offended, which she thought "very English". Comments such as " that needs to change"- "that needs to go"- "that doesn't work for me" were said right off the bat with no preamble or softening of the blow. This is business was her take on it and now i've gotten used to it, it moves things along quicker.

There's kind of a thing in the United States that the person paying can always do or say whatever they feel like doing or saying, and if you're the proprietor, you're supposed to just lump it.

It's not completely black and white, though, and sometimes it backfires.

My sister is a professional photographer, and you take what she does or she tells you to get lost.

we've got a small contractor in my neighborhood who doesn't give an inch to the customer, either, and they've built a loyal base based on the notion that they know more than you, the customer, and that you can cede decisions to them if you don't care to pick every little thing. They are not the cheapest, and they don't dicker on price, but the tightness of even their routine work is super.