Mortgage rates / interest etc

[Spectric]

Our problem is that signing on is seen as a form of employment, some who could work choose not to whilst others decide to work part time and claim a top up often because of the expense of child care. If you choose to just sign on then you should be made available to do work in the community so you at least get a routine and some experience of a working life and hopefully an incentive that you might as well get a better paid job than community work.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

Although quite different in character, the lifetime costs of house ownership vs rental may not be wildly different, despite social programming aspiring to ownership.

Rental charges need to be at least equal to the risk adjusted costs of ownership. Rental costs tend to increase over time due to inflation - but the costs of initial purchase remain unchanged (subject to interest rates on borrowings). Property assets carry risks - potential for increase in value, changes to interest rates, fairly illiquid, rental void periods etc.

The cost of ownership is equal (broadly) to the costs of funding the initial cost (either by mortgage or interest or savings foregone) + subsequent costs of maintenance, insurance, repair, updating as time passes etc.

Renting is largely the converse - insecurity of tenure, but can flexibly meeting changing needs, no worries about maintenance, repairs, upgrading etc.

That owners end up with an asset and tenants more rarely may have more to do with either greater incomes or less other spending by the former.

The fundamental influence on property and rental pricing is scarcity. Decades of a failure to build sufficient new properties to meet demand = scarcity = property values or rent increases.

 

[johna.clements]

Like any business a property developer wants to make as much profit as possible. I understand that there is generally more profit on higher value property. Higher value houses take more land. Therefore the same area of land is being used to house less people.

Councils and housing associations do not build as many houses as in the past. Whilst those would have gone for rent they would have soaked up some demand in the housing market.

A shortage of housing and government incentives to buy drives up prices. The only people who benefit are the property developers, people downsizing and your heirs.

 

[Jacob]

Our problem is that signing on is seen as a form of employment,

So unemployment is a form of employment?

some who could work choose not to whilst others decide to work part time and claim a top up often because of the expense of child care. If you choose to just sign on then you should be made available to do work in the community so you at least get a routine and some experience of a working life and hopefully an incentive that you might as well get a better paid job than community work.

What sort of community work do you have in mind? n.b. there aren't many available for what you suggest as we currently have the lowest unemployment rates since 1974.

 

[Spectric]

I would start with cleaning up the local area, we seem to be burying ourselves in liter.

 

[johna.clements]

Our problem is that signing on is seen as a form of employment, some who could work choose not to whilst others decide to work part time and claim a top up often because of the expense of child care. If you choose to just sign on then you should be made available to do work in the community so you at least get a routine and some experience of a working life and hopefully an incentive that you might as well get a better paid job than community work.

The government tried to put the unemployed to work in the 80s. A lot of the jobs were worthless, go sweep the floor of a factory. They were discontinued when the government decided that they were largely a waste of money.

At this time I was working on a power station in Kent. There was a bloke on the dole in the lodging house I was staying. he was on one of the schemes repairing the footpaths along the coast. They would hang around for an hour or two waiting to be driven to the site. Get there do two hours work then have lunch. Do another two hours then be driven home. Not what I would call a good experience of work.

I doubt it would be any better now apart from as a means of injecting money into the "training" agencies that would be set up.

It would be far better to spend the money on further education colleges so that people can learn trades.

 

[johna.clements]

I would start with cleaning up the local area, we seem to be burying ourselves in liter.

You are going to make the local authority litter collectors redundant and then employ people to watch groups of people on the dole collecting litter.

 

[Spectric]

You have to do something, if there are jobs then there should be no unemployment. Not far from me is a hotel that is desperate to recruit, need staff urgently and there are also many busineses that are also in need of staff but cannot get them so they reduce there opening hours and some might have to close yet there are quiet a lot of unemployed in the area who could easily fill these slots. The hotel manager who is a local says that they will not work in hospitality because they don't like the hours especially some of the early mornings and basically just enjoy the lazy life which really pee's him off.

 

[Spectric]

You are going to make the local authority litter collectors redundant

There is more than enough liter for them all to clear up as the local highways are understaffed and there are a lot more people lobing it out of car windows than people collecting.

 

[johna.clements]

You have to do something, if there are jobs then there should be no unemployment. Not far from me is a hotel that is desperate to recruit, need staff urgently and there are also many busineses that are also in need of staff but cannot get them so they reduce there opening hours and some might have to close yet there are quiet a lot of unemployed in the area who could easily fill these slots. The hotel manager who is a local says that they will not work in hospitality because they don't like the hours especially some of the early mornings and basically just enjoy the lazy life which really pee's him off.

They probably do not like the split shifts.
We want you in at 0700 and you finish at 1100. Then we want you back at 1700 finish at 2000.
Min wage on the weekend and bank holidays.

 

[deema]

I think there are a few categories of unemployed, and we need to be careful not to lump them altogether. These are the categories I have come a across.
1. Those who for medical reasons cannot work. They can be both short term and long term conditions.
2. Those who have become trapped in the benefit system. These are people who if they took paid employment would see their net income reduce. A vicious trap, that’s very hard to get out of for those with low skills, and for instance large families.
3. Those that accept the life that the benefits system provides, and have no desire to work / better themselves.
4. Those who defraud the system, in that they claim benefits whilst not declaring other paid work ie black market.

 

[johna.clements]

I think there are a few categories of unemployed, and we need to be careful not to lump them altogether. These are the categories I have come a across.
1. Those who for medical reasons cannot work. They can be both short term and long term conditions.
2. Those who have become trapped in the benefit system. These are people who if they took paid employment would see their net income reduce. A vicious trap, that’s very hard to get out of for those with low skills, and for instance large families.
3. Those that accept the life that the benefits system provides, and have no desire to work / better themselves.
4. Those who defraud the system, in that they claim benefits whilst not declaring other paid work ie black market.

1. A lot of those are people with mental health issues.
2. This has got better in the last few years. But I think the marginal tax rate is still in the region of 60 or 70% for many.
3. There are some like this but a lot less than some think.
4. This also certainly happens but it is quite difficult to disappear on the same day every week to sign on. Most likely to be one off jobs that are not declared. Cash in hand tax fraud is larger.

5. Over qualified.

 

[Jacob]

I would start with cleaning up the local area, we seem to be burying ourselves in liter.

Well if it's worth doing they could turn it into a paid job and get somebody off the dole, or it'll be chain gangs next!

 

[Jacob]

I think there are a few categories of unemployed, and we need to be careful not to lump them altogether. These are the categories I have come a across.
1. Those who for medical reasons cannot work. They can be both short term and long term conditions.
2. Those who have become trapped in the benefit system. These are people who if they took paid employment would see their net income reduce. A vicious trap, that’s very hard to get out of for those with low skills, and for instance large families.
3. Those that accept the life that the benefits system provides, and have no desire to work / better themselves.
4. Those who defraud the system, in that they claim benefits whilst not declaring other paid work ie black market.

"The number of people on Universal Credit in employment has remained at around 2.3 million since 10 December 2020. The employment rate has increased for all people on Universal Credit to 42% on 9 December 2021 from 39% on 10 December 2020 as the total number of people on Universal Credit has decreased."
This means that 2.3 million people in full time work are underpaid and their skin flint employers are subsidised by the benefits system.
Lots of information here DWP benefits statistics: February 2021

 

[baldkev]

In the UK we are programed to get on the property ladder and then spend a vast part of our lives paying a mortgage, this reduces the amount of money available to spend and increases national debt. If there was a good rental property market with regulated rents then people would have more disposable income that would benefit all.

Around here rents are a fair bit more than a mortgage.... seems to me renting is throwing money away. At least with a mortgage you end up with an asset..... with rent, it never ends

I tend to agree with Spectric that we are programmed to aspire to property, but unfortunately there is little incentive to put out property as a long term let without conforming to a rash of rules & restrictions.
I also feel that Akirk's & Spetric 's comments are linked by the idea of programming, especially advertising. That idea of being nudged into spending or doing more than we need to......
I suspect it also applies to tool advertising as well....

Everything is geared towards making us want stuff. Our phones, com0uters, smart t.vs even, collect info on us and our shopping / browsing info so they can target us.... and by extension, others around us, for instance, recently i was looking at tracked dumpers. Someone who worked with me for a few days then started getting ads for tracked dumpers because his phone was in close proximity to mine for a while

So unemployment is a form of employment?

What sort of community work do you have in mind? n.b. there aren't many available for what you suggest as we currently have the lowest unemployment rates since 1974.

Start a national building company. Give them labouring tasks and those who show willing get offered to start an apprenticeship.
Of course thered be problems with stealing, bad management and controlling standards would be difficult, but that'd be social housing sorted

 

[Spectric]

seems to me renting is throwing money away. At least with a mortgage you end up with an asset..... with rent, it never ends

Yes I can see that view but if rents were lower and you had a lot more disposable income as a result then is there really much difference. Buying a property ties you down for say 25 years and all repairs and upkeep are down to you, if renting was cheaper then your outlay is less and no upkeep so you have money to spend. I think a lot of europe does the renting more because the rent is sensable and people want to have more money in their pockets. You may end up owning the property but it can be a brick round your neck, it is an asset but you need somewhere to live so downsize, release equity, leave in your will. This all goes wrong when you get old and need care, now owning a property is just money to pay for the care whereas someone who has rented and had extra money to spend all their life now gets it free and they could be in the same care home as you! Same old story in that you have something and so get nothing, have nothing and get everything.

 

[Spectric]

or it'll be chain gangs next!

Not for the unemployed, we will use that idea for the people in prison, bright pink overalls along the lines of america.

 

[baldkev]

Yes I can see that view but if rents were lower and you had a lot more disposable income as a result then is there really much difference. Buying a property ties you down for say 25 years and all repairs and upkeep are down to you, if renting was cheaper then your outlay is less and no upkeep so you have money to spend. I think a lot of europe does the renting more because the rent is sensable and people want to have more money in their pockets. You may end up owning the property but it can be a brick round your neck, it is an asset but you need somewhere to live so downsize, release equity, leave in your will. This all goes wrong when you get old and need care, now owning a property is just money to pay for the care whereas someone who has rented and had extra money to spend all their life now gets it free and they could be in the same care home as you! Same old story in that you have something and so get nothing, have nothing and get everything.

Thats why you sign it over to your kids... the only difficult bit is timing. You need to do it ideally 7 years before you die or maybe 3 years before you need a care home.

If rent was a good bit lower than a mortgage, that would make a big difference in peoples choices... at that point you could roll your money into a business to make more money

 

[thetyreman]

You have to do something, if there are jobs then there should be no unemployment. Not far from me is a hotel that is desperate to recruit, need staff urgently and there are also many busineses that are also in need of staff but cannot get them so they reduce there opening hours and some might have to close yet there are quiet a lot of unemployed in the area who could easily fill these slots. The hotel manager who is a local says that they will not work in hospitality because they don't like the hours especially some of the early mornings and basically just enjoy the lazy life which really pee's him off.

I've been long-term unemployed before, the problem the unemployed face is discrimination, you go to interviews and people automatically presume you're 1. lazy 2. don't want to work 3. have no aspirations 4. you're stupid 5. you could never start a business, many unemployed people do want jobs but they'd need enough money to be able to cover the losses from loosing the benefit money, also I had may as well been a serial killer the amount of hostility I received from job centre staff, I even told them about my woodworking and just got laughed at basically, they also delberately with held opportunities for me to re-train to become a joiner despite trying to get on a course for over 6 months constantly hounding them, my 'work coach' went out of her way to deliberately forget my interest in woodworking, instead making me apply for ****** customer service jobs and jobs not suited to my skill set, the whole experience just confirmed that the system is completely broken and not working at all and left a very bad taste in my mouth regarding the conservative party that I'll never ever forget until the day I die.

 

[thetyreman]

There is more than enough liter for them all to clear up as the local highways are understaffed and there are a lot more people lobing it out of car windows than people collecting.

that should be a job for people who have committed crimes instead, not for the unemployed who are simply out of work and just looking for a job, they're looking for paid opportunities not slave labour...