Mortaring, but upside down?!

[Cozzer]

Just had the upper storey of my house unrendered and re-rendered.
Took 'em over a week to get the original stuff off, and subsequently me to spend over three days sweeping up and getting residue out of the gutters!
What with all the work using two hammer drills, I've had various 'casualties', including an outside coach lamp that got well and truly clobbered, and a couple of double glazed units that have had to be replaced.
Anyway, thinking it was all sorted, I've now found a new problem....
Looking up the rear wall, the guttering is screwed to a soffit - is that correct? - that had mortar behind it. I write 'had', because all the vibration from the hammers has caused it to shatter and fall, so now I've the prospect of filling it....but from below!
One end is probably not going to be a problem, being circa a half-inch gap, but the other end has got to be a good 3" away from the wall.
Can't get to the gap from the top, as it's covered by a tiled roof, so it seems I have no choice but to 'go up'.
How to I make it defy gravity?!

 

[Doug B]

I think a couple of photos would probably help a lot, guttering is usually fixed to the facia

 

[dizjasta]

Just had the upper storey of my house unrendered and re-rendered.
Took 'em over a week to get the original stuff off, and subsequently me to spend over three days sweeping up and getting residue out of the gutters!
What with all the work using two hammer drills, I've had various 'casualties', including an outside coach lamp that got well and truly clobbered, and a couple of double glazed units that have had to be replaced.
Anyway, thinking it was all sorted, I've now found a new problem....
Looking up the rear wall, the guttering is screwed to a soffit - is that correct? - that had mortar behind it. I write 'had', because all the vibration from the hammers has caused it to shatter and fall, so now I've the prospect of filling it....but from below!
One end is probably not going to be a problem, being circa a half-inch gap, but the other end has got to be a good 3" away from the wall.
Can't get to the gap from the top, as it's covered by a tiled roof, so it seems I have no choice but to 'go up'.
How to I make it defy gravity?!

Look at expanding foam as filler.

 

[Cabinetman]

Now that would really be unbelievably messy in my experience, it will drip all over you and the wall and it’s not nice stuff at all. Ian

 

[Ollie78]

Maybe cut some wooden blocks that will slip in the gap at sensible intervals and then use a good hybrid polymer to fix them in there.
Once dried and secure you could clad over with a small upvc strip that you can scribe to the gap and fix with capped pins or screws and caps.

Foam could work well but you will need to mask off the area below, you can get some very quick 2 part expanding foam, it is however "a bit mental" and should not be used on very hot days......


Ollie

 

[RichardG]

Definitely need a picture, wide mortar between wood and masonary is generally avoided, the wood moves during the year and then a crack develops and then the mortar falls out. Can you not trim with some wood or fibre board?

 

[HappyHacker]

I would go for the expanding foam. I cannot remember the name of the stuff I normally use but with a proper foam gun I have had no issues with it running. I have used it to block holes around sewage pipes in plasterboard ceilings without problems. Do not put too much in at a time so that if the hole is deep you build up layers allowing the previous layer time to go slightly off before putting in the next layer. Then cut off any that is sticking out after the last layer. When I have not done this and filled up holes nearly full I just end up with more sticking out afterwards to cut off Masking is always a good idea if the adjacent surface finish can be damaged by clearing off, especially when you are as cack handed as me.

 

[Cozzer]

Thanks, all.
Yes, photo's are required methinks!
And yes, Doug B, "facia" is probably the case rather than "soffit". Wasn't sure of correct terminology.
Best get the camera out! More later!

 

[Woody2Shoes]

It sounds like you're trying to fill a gap that has appeared between the top of the newly re-rendered wall and the inner edge of the horizontal soffit board.

I wouldn't use expanding foam - it degrades quickly when exposed to sunlight and birds (esp. bluetits IME) eat it (!) - I guess they think it's fungus.

You're essentially trying to fill a gap between two dissimilar materials - so movement needs to be accommodated.

I'd use oil-based mastic e.g. something like this: Everbuild 115 GP Oil Based Traditional Building Mastic 4 colours | Sealants and Tools Direct Note that this stuff can't easily be overpainted, so you need to use a matching colour.

If you're determined to use mortar, the best way is to mix up a stiff (i.e. minimum amount of water, not sloppy) batch of strong pointing mortar (using sharp sand and following the instructions on the masonry cement bag/website) and two trowels - an ordinary bricky's trowel to lift the stuff near to where it's going, then either a pointing trowel or (my preference) a 'slicker' or tuck pointer Marshalltown Tuck Pointer 6 ¾” x 3/8” - DuraSoft Handle - M505D

you load this up along its length and push it up into the gap and slide sideways - while holding the ordinary trowel underneath to catch any droppings.

 

[Cozzer]

It sounds like you're trying to fill a gap that has appeared between the top of the newly re-rendered wall and the inner edge of the horizontal soffit board.

Almost. (God! Another photo needed! Back very soon!)

 

[Cozzer]

Right...here we go! Not sure how these photo's are going to appear - they were originally the size of Belgium when I transferred from phone to PC, so I've reduced them in size. I'll try a single to start with...

 

[Cozzer]

OK...that's not too bad!
The problem area runs from the corner with the downpipe heading for the ladders.
What you (can't!) see is that the single-storey extension is newly tiled, and the pale wall above is the newly-rendered bit. Getting the original render off turned out to be a mammoth task, with lots of damage caused by falling render, before getting splattered everywhere with the new monococque (?) stuff. Anyway, the result was that every gutter was full of the damn stuff, and there's a conservatory (to the left of the photo) that was liberally covered in it.
Let's see how we get on with these 3(?) photo's...

 

[Cozzer]

Think gutter1.jpg shows the problem best - you can actually see some of the original mortar(?) (cement?) that hasn't fallen.....

 

[Spectric]

Nothing worse than messy builders, they should have sheeted everything first and then completely cleaned up at the end to leave no mess for the owner, and I think just filling is not the answer as the "facia" seems displaced. If I was you I would remove the guttering and board to see what is going on. A lot of these older properties did not have facias to which the guttering is fixed but rise and fall gutter brackets that went into the stonework, like these Prostyle Gutter Rise and Fall Bracket BRF8

 

[pe2dave]

AFAIK, cement upside down doesn't stick?
Alternatives? Browse the silicon sealant isle for something really sticky, sets (and flexes) and comes out of a tube?
Or something that sticks like sh to a blanket ... whatever form?

No suggestions, but B&Q or a helpful builders merchant?

 

[Cozzer]

Nothing worse than messy builders, they should have sheeted everything first and then completely cleaned up at the end to leave no mess for the owner, and I think just filling is not the answer as the "facia" seems displaced.

To be honest, I'm blaming the un-renderers with their drill hammers, but we've had two different sets of scaffolders, a motley crew of roofers, yet another bunch to re-render, so it could be down to any of 'em. How the previous owners got away with jamming a conservatory on to the extension - thereby buggering any idea of using a ladder to access the upper windows/guttering etc. because of the angle - is beyond me. Almost anything above head height at the house side needs scaffolding, which ain't cheap!

Cucumbering? Ah. Won't allow ********, then!

 

[Cozzer]

... If I was you I would remove the guttering and board to see what is going on. A lot of these older properties did not have facias to which the guttering is fixed but rise and fall gutter brackets that went into the stonework, like these Prostyle Gutter Rise and Fall Bracket BRF8

Guttering is new aluminium stuff, so shouldn't cause a problem removing. (Ha! Did I really write that?)
Out of interest, how's the board likely to be attached? Come to think, and to what?

 

[Spectric]

The facia board is normaly attached to the ends of the roof trusses and the bottom is closed by the soffit board which attaches to the facia one end and to the bottom of the trusses. In your pictures it looks like it is attached to the wall without any soffit board.

 

[Woody2Shoes]

AFAIK, cement upside down doesn't stick?
Alternatives? Browse the silicon sealant isle for something really sticky, sets (and flexes) and comes out of a tube?
Or something that sticks like sh to a blanket ... whatever form?

No suggestions, but B&Q or a helpful builders merchant?

How do you think they plaster ceilings??

 

[Woody2Shoes]

Guttering is new aluminium stuff, so shouldn't cause a problem removing. (Ha! Did I really write that?)
Out of interest, how's the board likely to be attached? Come to think, and to what?

Yes, those vertically-oriented boards don't seem to do much other than support some marginal-quality wiring for a probably energy-wasting/light-polluting floodlight. The critical thing will be to keep any gaps closed between wall and roof, between the rafters. They could be nailed on or perhaps more likely attached with screws+plugs.