Mobile speed Camera Vans

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markturner":16gbxexh said:
If I don't agree with a law about something, I don't comply, but that's just me, I am not judging anyone else.

Hmm, that sounds like fighting talk, and I'm sure isn't intended as such. Re-read it and tell me your views on a member of an anarcho-syndicalist collective making off with your car/bike/tools/TV because they don't "agree" with property laws. There are some laws which I find inconvenient, gravity for one, do I consider breaking it? Only in my dreams...
 
Baldhead":3p055vsc said:
bernienufc":3p055vsc said:
Baldhead
After doing the awareness course do you still have to declare the speending incident to the insurers? it was a topic that came up at work and nobody knew.
No you don't, we were told it doesn't show up anywhere other than police records so that should I be caught speeding again within 3 years I will not be given the option of a course, I will get a fine and 3 points.

Baldhead

Presumably each insurer can make up it's own rules on this?

BugBear
 
Jacob's point that speed cameras save a lot of accidents is dubious - the last report I read stated that there was a 60%+ increase in personal injury accidents where cameras were installed. This was thought to be because people drove with their eyes on the speedo instead of the road.
 
phil.p":i3x434l3 said:
Jacob's point that speed cameras save a lot of accidents is dubious - the last report I read stated that there was a 60%+ increase in personal injury accidents where cameras were installed. This was thought to be because people drove with their eyes on the speedo instead of the road.
Not true if you search a little further. There's plenty of evidence in favour.
 
KevM":3ri76v8w said:
markturner":3ri76v8w said:
If I don't agree with a law about something, I don't comply, but that's just me, I am not judging anyone else.

Hmm, that sounds like fighting talk, and I'm sure isn't intended as such. Re-read it and tell me your views on a member of an anarcho-syndicalist collective making off with your car/bike/tools/TV because they don't "agree" with property laws. There are some laws which I find inconvenient, gravity for one, do I consider breaking it? Only in my dreams...


Of course I am not suggesting general anarchy..or disobeyance of the law.....although having been the victim of tool theft, bike theft and car theft at various times, it does not seem to make much difference what I do or think....... Like I said, some people think the law is umuteable - I think it's full of irregularities, injustices and plain daft rules....As well of course many very good ones - I respect the ones I agree with and not the ones that are plainly drafted by people with no grip on reality. If everyone never opposed a law, where would this country be now? Think womens votes, slavery etc I could go on.......

However, the laws of the land will only be respected and upheld if they are right and proper . Unfortunately there is already way too much bad legislation about so many things, let alone the parlous state of our criminal justice system that seems to value the "rights" of the criminal over and above those of their victims....but that's another thread.....
 
"Think womens votes, slavery etc I could go on......."

Mark, I hadn't realised your crusade against traffic laws, and those others which you personally consider to be tosh, was a noble campaign to be judged alongside universal suffrage and emancipation; now I see that you're a true and selfless campaigner I doff my cap to you sir - vive la revolution!

Now, where did I leave my Camberwell carrot? :wink:
 
We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness and the right to drive motor vehicles as fast as they can go..


Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quote ... V3C4gQq.99
 
markturner":2znvhli4 said:
Look at Germany - do they have a problem there? No.......

Problem? Maybe not, worse than UK, yes. For road fatalities in 2010 Germany had more fatalities by all three measures used in the RAC report "Road Safety: A review of UK and European data", January 2013

45% higher per million inhabitants
38% higher per 10 billion passenger km
33% higher per million passenger cars

Source: http://www.racfoundation.org/assets/rac ... -jan13.pdf

"Lies, lies and damned statistics" aside I was quite surprised by some of the numbers, particulalry considering the reputable source. I think the RAC foundation must clearly be considered to be a pro-motoring organisation and not a rabid anti-car pressure group.
 

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markturner":2ua9f2en said:
Of course I am not suggesting general anarchy..or disobeyance of the law....
markturner":2ua9f2en said:
I respect the ones I agree with and not the ones that are plainly drafted by people with no grip on reality

I cannot reconcile these two quotes.

I feel your pain, as I spent many years trying to find an argument that justified my picking and choosing the laws I had to obey that did not give leeway to all those irresponsible scrotes that would make ridiculous choices. I failed. If you have discovered the secret, please share it so I can break laws with a clean conscience too.

Thanks
 
bugbear":1p03gnan said:
Baldhead":1p03gnan said:
bernienufc":1p03gnan said:
Baldhead
After doing the awareness course do you still have to declare the speending incident to the insurers? it was a topic that came up at work and nobody knew.
No you don't, we were told it doesn't show up anywhere other than police records so that should I be caught speeding again within 3 years I will not be given the option of a course, I will get a fine and 3 points.

Baldhead

Presumably each insurer can make up it's own rules on this?

BugBear
Obviously, but I was asked a question which I answered giving the information which I learned on my speed awareness course, in all my years of driving I have never been asked by any insurance company if I have attended a speed awareness course.

Baldhead
 
markturner":3n2gkteu said:
Some interesting reactions here..........I guess it comes down to what type of person you are - someone who obeys the law, no matter whether its ill thought out, inappropriate, or illogical, or whether, like me, you take a view that you are intelligent and skilled enough ( in this case we are talking about driving) and can make your own decisions about what's safe. If I don't agree with a law about something, I don't comply, but that's just me, I am not judging anyone else. So, yes, I speed when I want to...not always, but sometimes and I always drive extremely safely, plenty of space between cars, never overtake without perfect visibility, never speed in urban ares, etc etc. I have been driving over 30 years and have a clean licence and never had a serious accident.

In relation to the question in the post, it's all about appropriate speed for the situation.......you drive at 70mph on the motorway, but if road conditions etc were bad, it would be unsafe. So blindly following the limits is not right. I ride a motorbike as well as driving a car and you need to read the roads, read the surroundings and the conditions. If the road is not busy, visibility good and you wanted to drive at say 80 or 90 mph...whats the harm? of course, if the conditions change, you adjust accordingly. Also, you should never speed in built up areas. But on the open roads, it's a different story. Plus, you have to remember, the technology and performance of modern cars, with ABS, airbags, great tyres, etc makes them and driving much safer and also the speed limits on open roads much less relevant. Look at Germany - do they have a problem there? No.......

Speed itself is not the problem, is when it is combined with the wrong conditions and a lack of skill and ability to determine what is safe. We are fed the line about safety so much, but these cameras are all about revenue raising - if they were not, then why hide them? Also, the law is designed to fit the lowest common denominator, so unfortunately, its one size fits all.

Bottom line, use your own discretion, and be prepared to deal with the result if you choose to speed and get caught. And if you do speed, then you need to be bringing your A game to the table, as a motorcyclist, I always assume the other people on the road are idiots and have not seen me. So you assume the worst may happen, be prepared and cover the brake etc..By the way, I would totally not condone a lot of the riding I see many bikers doing, I use trackdays now to get my kicks, and drive pretty sedately on the roads when on the bike.


PS, the bit about someone stepping out - do think they will be any less dead if you were doing say 60mph ( national speed limit) instead of say 70mph? or 80mph ? If someone steps out into a busy road unexpectedly, then pretty sure its going to be messy, even with everyone obeying the limits.

At last....someone speaking commonsense.

Wrong speed for the wrong conditions.
 
"Speed itself is not the problem, is when it is combined with the wrong conditions and a lack of skill and ability to determine what is safe"

I am inclined to agree but sadly many many drivers misinterpret the conditions or over estimate their skill and ability. How many times do we read about multiple vehicle pile ups in fog. These are due to people not being able to stop in time, because they were either going too fast or not paying attention.
 
Irony alert.

The point is we all believe ourselves to be endowed with better than average skills and judgement, it's all the other nutters that are the problem...
 
markturner":17ggqmk5 said:
........you drive at 70mph on the motorway, but if road conditions etc were bad, it would be unsafe. So blindly following the limits is not right.
I think we understand that. We do realise that the 70 is not a compulsory minimum speed
.... Look at Germany - do they have a problem there? .......
Yes they do. Do a google and find out for yourself
.... Also, the law is designed to fit the lowest common denominator, so unfortunately, its one size fits all.
I think this is the funniest bit - the rules are just for the riff raff, not for J Clarkson fans :lol: :lol: Sounds like the wit and wisdom of Boris Johnson. :roll:
.. as a motorcyclist, I always assume the other people on the road are idiots and have not seen me.
Quite right too. This is normal practice. But it could be you as the idiot one day, if you are speeding and meet another idiot coming the other way
 
Jacob":327xvtz7 said:
phil.p":327xvtz7 said:
Jacob's point that speed cameras save a lot of accidents is dubious - the last report I read stated that there was a 60%+ increase in personal injury accidents where cameras were installed. This was thought to be because people drove with their eyes on the speedo instead of the road.
Not true if you search a little further. There's plenty of evidence in favour.
I've just googled "do speed cameras stop accidents" - the surveys that say no out number the ones that say yes about 3 to 1. There's plenty of evidence not in favour. The first one in favour is an international survey, which of course may or may not be correct in any given country.
How can it be proven the they save accidents, when authorities have admitted they have been placed where there had been no accidents?
 
Just did the same
Unfortunately it's mostly b......x from idiot sources - Mail, Telegraph, Tax payers alliance etc.

The fixed cameras which have nabbed me 3 times so far (only 35 in a 30 zone etc) were all very sensibly situated in built up residential areas with busy straight roads going through, which look fast, until someone is backing out of a drive, crossing the road etc.
The mobile cameras around here crop regularly on several roads notorious for motor bike accidents and you can be sure they are saving lives. Derbyshire that is. Swarms of bikers every weekend going to Matlock Bath or racing past the Cat and Fiddle - or were doing until the crackdown.
We often hear sirens at the weekend and it's usually another biker in the Via Gellia being over confident. Not kids, often beardy old geezers on posh bikes too fast for them.
 

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