Might buy an old Viceroy - need help with the spindle size

[graduate_owner]

I suppose this is irrelevant now, but I have only just seen the post. The viceroy is indeed 1 1/2" x 8 tpi, ( same as Boxford ) and both head and tailstocks have no. 3 Morse Taper. The bed on mine can be unbolted from the headstock column, and the leg at the tailstock end is also removeable. However the headstock casting itself is a bit of a beast. Having said that, I bought a graduate bowl lathe which is basically just the headstock casting and, unlike the viceroy, it is all cast iron so probably heavier. Two of us manhandled it into the back of my Ford Focus estate without much difficulty, and I was early 60's then somno spring chicken.
I think the viceroy is an excellent piece of kit, built to last and to go all day. Some of the Axminster lathes ( hobby range) have a maximum recommended annual usage of 100 hours - that's 2 hours per week , with few ( if any) periods of continuous use. So unless the Axminster lathe is from their trade range, I would say there's no comparison.
Like I said, this is probably far too late for the OP but may be of interest so some other readers.

K

 

[graduate_owner]

The annual usage I mentioned applies to Charnwood's hobby range too.

 

[0770dc]

I suppose this is irrelevant now, but I have only just seen the post. The viceroy is indeed 1 1/2" x 8 tpi, ( same as Boxford ) and both head and tailstocks have no. 3 Morse Taper. The bed on mine can be unbolted from the headstock column, and the leg at the tailstock end is also removeable. However the headstock casting itself is a bit of a beast. Having said that, I bought a graduate bowl lathe which is basically just the headstock casting and, unlike the viceroy, it is all cast iron so probably heavier. Two of us manhandled it into the back of my Ford Focus estate without much difficulty, and I was early 60's then somno spring chicken.
I think the viceroy is an excellent piece of kit, built to last and to go all day. Some of the Axminster lathes ( hobby range) have a maximum recommended annual usage of 100 hours - that's 2 hours per week , with few ( if any) periods of continuous use. So unless the Axminster lathe is from their trade range, I would say there's no comparison.
Like I said, this is probably far too late for the OP but may be of interest so some other readers.

K

Hi K

I’ve just bought a Viceroy TDS with the standard bed length. I was hoping to use it mainly on the outboard side for turning larger bowls but I’ve been advised that getting a chuck adapter made for this side would push the blank to far out of balance. Do you have any ideas or experience on this? Thanks, Dan

 

[minilathe22]

The Union Graduate has MT3 taper in the headstock, and that is a 1.5" diameter thread so it can physically fit. Annoyingly its MT2 in the tailstock end which I always found strange.

 

[Brecien]

Ahh I see, that makes more sense!
Are you sure 1.5" x 8tpi is standard though? dm-tools and yandles both don't have any that fit, and there's only 1 on Axeminsters site that fits it (the most expensive one). 1" x 8tpi seems much more common, if I could get an adapter to make mine that size I think I'd be ok.



I'm not really sure, I found this manual and this site and they both say it's MT3. From that second site:


So... maybe? Hopefully like you said someone who owns one will be able to give me a definite answer soon - touch wood!!

Hi, I've got a TDS6 Im restauring. luckily I have an original Chuck and back plates. Search on Youtube, Anchor designs./Viceroy bowl lathe. This guy will answer all your questions. He has changed to a new 2HP motor. I'm buying a VFD for mine and remote switch and speed control but keeping the original hoover 3PH motor.

 

[Sideways]

2 year old thread .....

 

[Brecien]

Hi, I've got a TDS6 Im restauring. luckily I have an original Chuck and back plates. Search on Youtube, Anchor designs./Viceroy bowl lathe. This guy will answer all your questions. He has changed to a new 2HP motor. I'm buying a VFD for mine and remote switch and speed control but keeping the original hoover 3PH motor.

 

[Brecien]

Hi All, Sorry for not introducing myself to the Forum. Such things are new to me but itroductions always a good place to start.
Regards to all, Andy

 

[Brecien]

2 year old thread .....

Hi Sideways/ New to furums? didn't take note of the date you posted it. Presume project all finished by the time you recieved my advice!?

 

[Morty]

The LH thread 1.25 x 9tpi is not very common but LH faceplates do come up on e bay but are around the £50+ mark, luckily I had a LH faceplate made for me FOC as an apprentice project at an engineering shop.

 

[Brecien]

This worries me a bit, if the lathe doesn't come apart I'm going to struggle to get it home. I was hoping the worst case scenario would be taking 2 cars, splitting the lathe up into roughly equal parts then taking it home. The manual I found says it's around 300kg - really pushing the weight limit on my car.
I can't find anything online about it coming apart, but surely it must do..?

With regards to the chuck - for the sake of the £30 adapter I'll probably pick up that with a cheaper chuck. It will definitely last me a good while, then when I want to start turning bigger things I can always look into getting parts machined like you mentioned.

That's good to know.
I found a load of pictures of the bowl turning variant in pieces here, so even though I've got a different model I still think mine will come apart similarly. Looks like it's just 2 lots of 4 bolts holding it all together on the BT model, so with a bit of luck the whole thing will come apart for easy loading - no van required!

Hi, I'm starting the restauration process of my TDS6 Short bed. I can confirm they do come apart. You will need to give yourself time. 14MM and 1/2" spanners will come in handy and short reach ones. theres not alot of space inside the housing from where you can unbolt the cast beds. The rest of the body is pretty much all plate making it easier to handle and more adaptable than cast bodied lathes like the graduate. Easily move mine around on a sack barrow.
The Spindle thread sizes Of 1 1/2" 8TPI and 1 1/4" on the left are correct. DB tools I believ do a chuck backing plate withe the correct thread that can be apapted and replace the the backing plate on other chucks. With your model you have plenty distance between centres so maybe the M33 opens up more options to you.

 

[Jodougie2812]

I've been attending a turning course for about 6 months and am loving it, but only having access to a lathe for ~6 hours once a week is really holding back how quickly I progress.
I've come into a bit of money so have decided to bite the bullet and buy myself a lathe - I've already got the space, a bandsaw and a set of decent chisels, so once I've got a lathe and a grinder I'm good to go.
I've narrowed it down to either an old Viceroy TDS6 WL, or an almost new Axeminster AWVL 1000.
The TDS6 is the 3 phase model that's got a single phase variable speed converter on it, and as they're both going for about the same amount it's clearly the better choice.

The problem comes from the TDS's non-standard spindle size. Everything I've read online says it's a 1.5" x 8tpi spindle, but when I found the manual it says the following:
"Spindle Bearing; The 1 1/2" diameter 3 M.T. 13/16" bore spindle is made of high tensile steel and is mounted..."
I then looked on Wikipedia, here, but under MT3 there's nothing that matches 1.5". Am I misunderstanding something here?

How hard is it going to be to find converters for the TDS? Much as I really want the variable speed, I appreciate that the AWVL (especially when combining the adjustable pulleys/gears with the speed lever) would tide me over for a couple of years. Am I better off buying the AWVL, or is there somewhere I can just buy a converter for the TDS?

 

[Jodougie2812]

I've been attending a turning course for about 6 months and am loving it, but only having access to a lathe for ~6 hours once a week is really holding back how quickly I progress.
I've come into a bit of money so have decided to bite the bullet and buy myself a lathe - I've already got the space, a bandsaw and a set of decent chisels, so once I've got a lathe and a grinder I'm good to go.
I've narrowed it down to either an old Viceroy TDS6 WL, or an almost new Axeminster AWVL 1000.
The TDS6 is the 3 phase model that's got a single phase variable speed converter on it, and as they're both going for about the same amount it's clearly the better choice.

The problem comes from the TDS's non-standard spindle size. Everything I've read online says it's a 1.5" x 8tpi spindle, but when I found the manual it says the following:
"Spindle Bearing; The 1 1/2" diameter 3 M.T. 13/16" bore spindle is made of high tensile steel and is mounted..."
I then looked on Wikipedia, here, but under MT3 there's nothing that matches 1.5". Am I misunderstanding something here?

How hard is it going to be to find converters for the TDS? Much as I really want the variable speed, I appreciate that the AWVL (especially when combining the adjustable pulleys/gears with the speed lever) would tide me over for a couple of years. Am I better off buying the AWVL, or is there somewhere I can just buy a converter for the TDS?

I have made sets of threading taps for both thread sizes used on the Viceroy spindle. It's a great lathe. Much sturdier than my Record Nova which I now rarely use

 

[Jodougie2812]

If anyone needs chuck adapters or faceplate machining. Let me know

 

[Sideways]

Oops - mugged by an old thread, but since I wrote it I'll leave it here

https://www.denfordata.com/pdfs/Viceroy-TDS-6WL-Wood-Turning-Lathe.pdf
Spot the typo on the front page. Read the specification pages.

Viceroy made by Denford
1 1/2" 8tpi right hand thread on the spindle over the bed.
Spindled bored 20mm for anything that needs to pass through the spindle
Spindle made with a #3 morse taper socket for drive centres, mandrels and the like when turning between centres.
3mt is the bigger size so good. You can always insert a 3mt to 2mt or 3mt to 1mt reducer if you want to reduce it and use smaller tooling. You can't step up from small to large without being limited in some way.

If you can get a reputable chuck with removable back plates, 1.5" 8tpi back plates should be available as you found for the Vicmarc. Vicmarc chucks are pricey but very nice. A lathe like yours would take the larger VM120 or the smaller VM100 chuck I imagine.
Interchangeable back plate chuck is the way to go as this spindle size and thread is old fashioned and a dedicated chuck won't fit many (any ?) other lathes. If you decide to sell it on, it is cheaper to keep a good chuck and buy a new backplate to fit your replacement lathe that to sell and have to buy a new chuck who's prices are steadily increasing.
The spindle on the Viceroy is good n big for strength. Comparable with the venerable Graduate lathe (1.5inch 6tpi) and slightly bigger than the modern 33mm "standard" size.

It is not uncommon to have the morse taper one size larger at the spindle end (mt3) than the tailstock (mt2). Turning between centres with a 2 or 4 prong drive or a steb centre the drive forces are being transferred through the taper so bigger size is good. The tailstock is only there to provide support so doesn't need to be as big.

 

[Fergie 307]

I have made sets of threading taps for both thread sizes used on the Viceroy spindle. It's a great lathe. Much sturdier than my Record Nova which I now rarely use

If it is anything like the same quality as their metal working ones then a very good machine.

 

[Jodougie2812]

If it is anything like the same quality as their metal working ones then a very good machine.

It is good. Not much vibration. Even with big, out of round pieces