bugbear
Established Member
RogerBoyle":3f2d62ix said:
Nothing - but it wasn't explicit in your first post wether your grandfather was using a ruler to control the process or not. That's the detail I was after.
BugBear
micro bevel on plane backs
- Thread starter chippymart
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Nothing - but it wasn't explicit in your first post wether your grandfather was using a ruler to control the process or not. That's the detail I was after.
BugBear
RogerBoyle
Established Member
Ok
No he did it all by touch and years of practise As do I
I bought a tormek system when they first came out for sharpining my tools
But it was just far to slow and now its only ever used for my lathe tools or Planer thicknesser blades
No he did it all by touch and years of practise As do I
I bought a tormek system when they first came out for sharpining my tools
But it was just far to slow and now its only ever used for my lathe tools or Planer thicknesser blades
ossieosborne
Established Member
Mork had two nano bevels! :wink:
I'll get me coat.
Oz
I'll get me coat.
Oz
woodbrains
Established Member
Hello,
I fear we have gone completely off topic. The OP wants to know about back bevels which, although similar to the ruler trick and such, is not the same at all.
The ruler trick is to circumvent the laborious process of flattening and fettling the plane iron's back by putting a very low angled bevel there, hence the thin rule as a guide. If I could be bothered doing the trig, it would be less than 1deg; too small to have any real consequence.
Back bevels are made to increase the effective pitch of the cutter. In a bevel down plane, adding a small 5 deg micro bevel effectively turns the plane into York pitch and 10 deg, middle pitch, to deal with cranky grain. I have a 4 1/2 smoother permanently set up with an iron having a 10 deg back bevel, made with the Veritas honing guide the OP is asking about. My other 4 1/2 has a regularly sharpened iron. Between the 2, I can deal with all sorts of ornery and mild timbers with no problems. Both these planes were £10 each (second hand of course), so is possibly the most economical way of getting the benefits of more 'exotic' planes such as LN with York pitch frogs etc. I will upgrade the irons soon though, but still a good economy.
Mike.
I fear we have gone completely off topic. The OP wants to know about back bevels which, although similar to the ruler trick and such, is not the same at all.
The ruler trick is to circumvent the laborious process of flattening and fettling the plane iron's back by putting a very low angled bevel there, hence the thin rule as a guide. If I could be bothered doing the trig, it would be less than 1deg; too small to have any real consequence.
Back bevels are made to increase the effective pitch of the cutter. In a bevel down plane, adding a small 5 deg micro bevel effectively turns the plane into York pitch and 10 deg, middle pitch, to deal with cranky grain. I have a 4 1/2 smoother permanently set up with an iron having a 10 deg back bevel, made with the Veritas honing guide the OP is asking about. My other 4 1/2 has a regularly sharpened iron. Between the 2, I can deal with all sorts of ornery and mild timbers with no problems. Both these planes were £10 each (second hand of course), so is possibly the most economical way of getting the benefits of more 'exotic' planes such as LN with York pitch frogs etc. I will upgrade the irons soon though, but still a good economy.
Mike.
bugbear
Established Member
woodbrains":3kvbo3db said:
The OP appears (quite reasonably!) confused, since the Veritas back bevel is one thing, and the Lie Nielson one, another.
He mentions both.
BugBear
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
What's the difference? A bevel is a bevel. They vary by degree from virtually nil ("nano" bevel) to whatever you like.bugbear":2oopgy3n said:
bugbear
Established Member
Jacob":238w3l9k said:
The ruler trick bevel ONLY affect speed of blade preparation, a larger back bevel alter effective pitch and hence tear out.
BugBear
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
An applied bevel alters effective pitch, whatever it is.bugbear":34r565jb said:
bugbear
Established Member
Jacob":33ccoh7o said:
To a practical man, a 1/2 degree bevel makes no appreciable difference.
Obviously, there's a theoretical difference, if that's what interests you.
BugBear
woodbrains
Established Member
Hello,
I don't suppose the bedding angle of planes is accurate to 1/2 a degree in any case, with all the inaccuracies that would creep in during the machining of the frog face, frog seatings etc. so 45 degree frogs are only nominally 45 degrees anyhow. 1/2 a deg increase on the plane iron back would make no perceptable difference in use and certainly no difference to taming ornery grain. A 5 deg or 10 deg back bevel does raise the effective pitch and does help with tearout. I only sharpen the 'true' bevel with a 25 deg single bevel, so adding a back bevel of 5 deg does not alter the overall honed angle of the iron (still 30 deg included angle) a 10 degree back bevel only increases that by a little (35 deg included angle on the blade). This could be seen as an advantage in blade resilliance for those who have A2 irons in their planes, so happy days there.
Incidentally, back bevels should not be used on bevel up planes as they will not affect planing performance with cranky grain, just make the blade angle too thick for no good reason. The Ruler Trick is perfectly fine, though, in these cases, as I exploited no end with a couple of dozen block planes in a school D&T dept. It would hve driven me nuts flattening the backs of those, cheap imported things, but the ruler trick did me proud.
Mike.
I don't suppose the bedding angle of planes is accurate to 1/2 a degree in any case, with all the inaccuracies that would creep in during the machining of the frog face, frog seatings etc. so 45 degree frogs are only nominally 45 degrees anyhow. 1/2 a deg increase on the plane iron back would make no perceptable difference in use and certainly no difference to taming ornery grain. A 5 deg or 10 deg back bevel does raise the effective pitch and does help with tearout. I only sharpen the 'true' bevel with a 25 deg single bevel, so adding a back bevel of 5 deg does not alter the overall honed angle of the iron (still 30 deg included angle) a 10 degree back bevel only increases that by a little (35 deg included angle on the blade). This could be seen as an advantage in blade resilliance for those who have A2 irons in their planes, so happy days there.
Incidentally, back bevels should not be used on bevel up planes as they will not affect planing performance with cranky grain, just make the blade angle too thick for no good reason. The Ruler Trick is perfectly fine, though, in these cases, as I exploited no end with a couple of dozen block planes in a school D&T dept. It would hve driven me nuts flattening the backs of those, cheap imported things, but the ruler trick did me proud.
Mike.
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