metal or wood jointer?

[58954]

First post, first question.
Having a n°5 (modern Record) and a LV LA block plane, i am now missing a jointer.
Having read reviews and posts on this topic i have settled for a LV BU jointer...
But i still feel uncomfortable, shouldn't it be a cheaper woodie one? ECE or ULMIA model, or even a homemade one?
Does the "fully stress-relieved, ductile cast iron body" means a flat sole that stays flat, forever flat?
Could you please, wise folk, help me justifying the decision that the reading of your posts have already influenced?

In short metal jointer versus wood jointer! :twisted:

Many thanks in advance.
Simon

 

[ByronBlack]

Metal is shiny and new - I like shiny

I would go for both, see which you prefer and then sell the one you don't like

 

[Newbie_Neil]

Hi Simon

Welcome to the forum.

I know it isn't mandatory, but it might be helpful in the future if you filled in the location in your profile. Even the country would be good.

Cheers
Neil

 

[Alf]

Welcome to the forum, Simon.

Does the "fully stress-relieved, ductile cast iron body" means a flat sole that stays flat, forever flat?

Not exactly - but it does mean a sole that's not going to warp like a banana as it ages. It'll still wear over time. I wouldn't even begin to start on the concept of "flat" and how it doesn't exist - 'cos that's BugBear's territory. As far as a wooden jointer goes I would not wish to dissuade you although I favour a metal one myself. D'you have purveyors of fine pre-owned goods, often from the back luggage space of a motor vehicle, in your vicinity? Could be you can grab yourself an old wooden one to try for very little lettuce.

Cheers, Alf

 

[58954]

Many thanks for your welcome and answers,

Alf, are you saying that the metal sole could need a flattening maintenance routine after a period?
If so i might stay away from a jointer: i've already - tried to- flatten a n°4 1/2 (anant) and a standard angle block plane (record)...
I don't even have a true straightedge to begin with!

 

[ByronBlack]

Maybe I can suggest then in purchasing a good straight-edge first as everything can then be referenced of that.

You won't need to flatten the sole of the jointer as regular as a smoother for example as it's not that critical but it may or may-not need doing depending on what you buy.

I purchased a second-hand record that worked pretty well of the bat and didn't require lapping.

 

[58954]

ByronBlake, your advice sounds spot on: i should buy a good straightedge; it's just that i wanted to avoid that.

When it comes to precision, i get uncertain:
I just can't manage to figure what flat is flat enough and how to flatten the sole without making thing worse... (i try to follow the instructions from "making and mastering wood planes" by David Finck)
My record bloke plane worked very well before i lapped its sole. And after i did too! :-k .Wasted time and sole steel.


So i was ready to buy a new jointer, from a well known maker, thinking to have a jointer i could trust without resorting to a straightedge. :wink:

If this is not the case, and i trust you on this, i think i will buy an Hock or Finck blade, a good straightedge and try to build a woodie.

Cheers,
Simon

 

[ByronBlack]

Simon,

If you have the money, my personal experiened based advice would be to buy a second-hand (old) record or stanley and if you feel the need then fit a hock blade to it. Don't worry too much about absolute flatness of the sole, just get the blade nice and sharp and set correctly in the plane and just start using it.

With a woodie, it will need flattening more often but is less messy to do. I like the 'idea' of wooden planes and would like to replace my current smoother with one, but i'm not sure I would replace my record jointer.

For what its worth, it might be a good option to have a look here for some good quality second hand planes: www.oldtools.co.uk (it's where I bought all my current planes from, and all have not needed that much fettling and lapping at all to give excellent shavings).

As for straight edges, I can recommend the 400mm Japanese one on the axminster site - very accurate, handy size, has one side as the straight edge and the other with common used angles (30, 45 degree etc..) and best of all, doesnt cost too much.

Hope that is some help.

 

[dchenard]

I think flatness shouldn't be dismissed that easily...

What's important is that the front of the sole, the area before the mouth and the rear end of the sole be all in the same plane. If the rest of the sole is "recessed" compared to that plane, then it's fine. But if the sole is concave along its length, you will never be able to joint a flat edge. Unfortunately, my new old Stanley #8 has that "feature". I'll bring it to a machine shop to get rid of that concavity.

A sole that's slightly convex won't impede getting a straight edge on the wood, if the user knows and compensates for that. A convex edge won't work.

DC

 

[bugbear]

Maybe I can suggest then in purchasing a good straight-edge first as everything can then be referenced of that.

Bizarrely, I think you can now get surface plates whose diagonal is the same length as the desired straight edge, with a higher precision grade than a straightedge, for less money than a straight edge!

BugBear (who likes his surface plate, and has straightened straight edges with it...)

 

[bugbear]

I just can't manage to figure what flat is flat enough

I think the action of a jointer is more one of "averaging" out errors over the length - as far as I can tell, precise flatness is LESS important on large planes.

In any case, they're flexible enough that super-accuracy is (in fact) meaningless.

BugBear

 

[Paul Chapman]

who likes his surface plate, and has straightened straight edges with it...

Are you paranoid, BB :? :lol:

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[bugbear]

who likes his surface plate, and has straightened straight edges with it...

Are you paranoid, BB :? :lol:

Cheers :wink:

Paul

You could have driven a truck(*) through the gap between the rule in my (second hand) Moore and Wright combo square ruler and the surface plate!

BugBear

(*) Obviously quite a small truck

 

[beech1948]

58954,
I have both a Stanley No 7 and 8.

Both required only minor lapping and I did not really need to do this but I am a perfectionist...damn and blast it!?!. :twisted:

I also have a wooden jointer...22 inches long, old steel blade, flattened once in three years of use and that was when I bought it. price was £2.99 + "2.50 P&P of ebay.

Wooden jointer has proved to be as good as a metal jointer. More edgy to adjust but once mastered it gets quicker to adjust and tune. Chip removal from the mouth is a bit more frustrating than the metal planes but you get into the flow of it when working.

Main difference is in the feel of the plane. The woody has a more smooth feel and a more delicate sound than the metal plane. maybe wood on wood is more slippery. Metal planes are more mechanical in feel and sound but possibly more efficient.

I use both types often using my woody to take fairly rank shavings and my metal planes to take fine shavings. Just so I don't have to adjust planes too frequently.

I like my woody more than the metal planes but its a horses for courses thing. My woody has needed the mouth to be patched in front with a small piece of beech, to be flattened after and then adjusted with a file for width. Not needed on a metal plane of course.

regards

alan

 

[58954]

Thank you all for your answers and indications.

I found an "old" thread addressing many of my concerns : https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums...torder=asc&highlight=metal+wood+plane&start=0

Should have read it before posting...

Beside this i should have told you too that i was trying to get rough sawn boards done efficiently. Well more efficiently than with my trusty n°5 alone.
Thus the foreplane might be needed as well...

Might be time to open a new thread an ask how many of us here brings their wood to size without powered P/T.
And how many planes do they use to get the job done. :?:


Kind regards,
Simon

 

[Paul Chapman]

Beside this i should have told you too that i was trying to get rough sawn boards done efficiently. Well more efficiently than with my trusty n°5 alone.
Thus the foreplane might be needed as well...

Might be time to open a new thread an ask how many of us here brings their wood to size without powered P/T.
And how many planes do they use to get the job done. :?:

Hi Simon,

If you are starting with rough, sawn boards you'd be better using a scrub plane (or a plane with the blade ground to a steep camber so it acts like a scrub plane). That's the best way to get a board to a presentable state so that your other planes can do their work properly. I don't have a powered P/T and now use scrub-type planes first, before going on to other planes. If you are not familiar with the technique, Rob Cosman has a very good DVD on the topic called "Rough to Ready", in which he takes you through how it's done. Well worth getting http://www.classichandtools.com/acatalo ... n_DVD.html (scroll down a bit).

Cheers :wink:

Paul

PS There are very brief trailers of the DVDs on Rob's site http://www.robcosman.com/dvd.php

 

[mr]

Might be time to open a new thread an ask how many of us here brings their wood to size without powered P/T.
And how many planes do they use to get the job done. :?:


Kind regards,
Simon

I do
All timber processing & prep done by hand. Mainly using 3 planes. A wee wooden Bismark style scrub (thanks Phil) a 7&1/2 jointer and an LA Jack.
Pics here if I can get the piccy uploading thing to work

Board scrubbed down from 25mm thickness to 20mm, other side flattened first, edges scribed from face side etc.

The pile of shavings from face prep for one side and thicknessing.

Boards prepped (ish) awaiting a smooth, scrape and trip to size.
Cheers Mike

edit - pics fixed. Hurrah!

 

[Paul Chapman]

Mike, the pictures opened up OK on my PC.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[mr]

Thanks Paul, couldn't seem to embed them in the post thoug. Guess I'll have to read the "how to" again
Cheers Mike

 

[58954]

Hi Paul, Mike and all,
It's quite funny that there is so few people to prep their stock by hand.

If you are not familiar with the technique, Rob Cosman has a very good DVD on the topic called "Rough to Ready", in which he takes you through how it's done. Well worth getting

I though getting that one too, but having the "Coarse Medium and Fine" of C. Schwarz, and having read Alf's review i don't think that this DVD would bring me much further... But i may be completely wrong.

There is another interesting thread where planes to prep stock were discussed a few months ago:
scrub plane

Nice pics Mike, thanks for posting.

I still didn't decide for the jointer... In the meantime, i enjoy my new LV block plane: O1 blade, takes easily end grain shaving in oak; my best plane so far!

Cheers,
Simon