Marking knives

[woodbloke]

Been messing around with knives this afternoon:

I've been using the ebony handled Sabatier for a while now but I find it a bit clunky and cumbersome, the bevel is too long and the handle too big. The dovetail marker I made last year from some HSS hacksaw blade is again awkward to use. The little dovetail marker I made recently to mark out D/T's for the Elm Chest but it's too small to use a general purpose marking knife that would also mark out bigger dovetails.
I had in mind to make a larger version but was a bit stumped for some suitable steel, then I remembered that I had some original blades from my K439 planer which were 1mm thick, ideal as it has proved so I epoxied some rosewood on sides after first rough shaping the steel on the grinder. It was then sanded and a lick of BLO has produced this:

The other blade is shown so you can see how the blank looked before working on it. I've made the handle much slimmer than the Sabatier so it feels more comfortable. A little careful marking out has enabled me to pick up the round hole in the steel to use a hanging up hole on the Tool Wall. In a very recent issue of F&C Mr C remarked that his favourite marking knife was one like this . Its certainly a useful way to use up a bit of decent steel and I've still got another blade to do something with. It's not as pretty as some of the knives we've seen on the forum recently but it should suite my needs - Rob

 

[Chris Knight]

Nice one Rob and very timely _- I was just about to chuck a couple of beat-up planer blades!

 

[Philly]

Nice work, Rob!
Another one for the list.... :roll: :lol:
Philly

 

[Paul Chapman]

Excellent, Rob - looks like it will be very comfortable in use.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Waka]

Nice useful tool there Rob.

 

[MrJay]

Something I found when I made mine was that a hard angular profile wasn't much use and tended to dig in or wander off; a slightly rounded profile like the star-trek logo was much more friendly.

 

[woodbloke]

It's (a) knife, Jim, but not as we know it......I'd get my coat but it's too warm :lol: - Rob

 

[Wiley Horne]

Hi Rob,

That's a great marking knife, IMO. What I like about it is that, first, it's thin enough to get into saw-kerf-wide pin entries. Yet it's wide enough to register well. Seems just the thing to me.

Wiley

 

[newt]

Blimey Rob I know we are only a few miles apart but what a co-incidence. I had the same knife and found it difficult in the same manner as you. I have just made an almost identical knife as yours, I had some ground carbon steel which I heat treated. yours looks better than mine I tried to make some brass rivets to attach the wood its ok but not elegant.

 

[woodbloke]

Newt - now that is a coincidence . Its just that I had a requirement to make a knife that suited my needs. I've been playing around with all sorts of knives over the last couple of years and nothing has really been suitable - hopefully this one will be. I've not needed to rivet the wood to the steel, provided that the surface of the steel has been abraded and then degreased with some meths that's always been enough to give a good bond - Rob

 

[Benchwayze]

As long as you don't make a left-handed marking knife if you are right handed....


John

 

[woodbloke]

As long as you don't make a left-handed marking knife if you are right handed....


John

John - had to think very hard before I ground the edges on the Tormek :lol: - Rob

 

[pam niedermayer]

You may want a left handed knife for a right handed user and vice versa. Jeff Gorman recommends putting the bevel up against the square/straight edge for marking (http://www.amgron.clara.net/markingout/ ... eindex.htm ). I've been doing this for a couple or three years and like it a lot.

Pam

 

[Benchwayze]

Hmmmmm....
Good old Jeff...
My m.o.g. of a foreman used to clip me around the ear if I didn't put the flat side of the knife against the square.

Try it both ways Pam, without moving the square of course. If you don't slope the knife, when you put the bevel against the square, I think you will find you end up with a 'tramline'... Not good, unless you are going to cut in between the lines. (I can't see the point.)

With flat side against the square, it's more accurate I believe, and the bevel pushes the sheared fibres AWAY from the line to the WASTE side, so they disappear when the waste is cut away, esp. in tenon shoulders. Which is what we want of course. I like a nice deep score myself, and some workers make the line into a 'v' shape, to better guide the saw.

I must confess to using a broad chisel sometimes though. Of course when I am in 'non-Galoot' mode, I use machines, pencil and Jigs or stop-blocks!

Incidentally, I wonder how many true Galoots we have these days.
I would wager most Galoots use chainsaw felled timber and Mill-converted planks, as opposed to axe-felled, and saw-pit produced plank! You know what they say... Probably, the only truly hand made things are hand-thrown pots and snowballs. Look how long snowballs last...

Rob....
I use a chip-carving knife for marking. It is nice and light and I hone it on a diamond-stone and polish the flat-side of the blade to a mirror finish.
I still can't post pics so I can't show you..
I will get to grips though have no fear.


John


Enjoy the wooding

 

[Anonymous]

I always use an Opinel for knife marking and find it really convenient. You can use the point or the curved part of the blade. Bevel both sides and rounded slightly as it is sharpened with a steel.

I have tried a normal marking knife but found them inconvenient - I now see why having looked at Geof Gorman's site; the bevel needs to be on the left, if you are right handed.
But that means they are inconvenient if used in the left hand - so should the bevel be both sides? Back to the Opinel then; which also is quicker and easier to sharpen with a steel compared to honing on a stone, is very cheap to buy and generally much more useful.

cheers
Jacob

 

[bugbear]

Bevel both sides and rounded slightly as it is sharpened with a steel.

For a knife to mark and make a "true" cut (e.g. for a tenon shoulder) at least one face must be flat.

This is why you sometimes need to turn the blade over when using a cutting gauge. Otherwise the bevel slightly mars the finished work.

BugBear

 

[Benchwayze]

Hi Jacob,

No argument on that from me. To each their own. If it doesn't fold, don't sheath it to carry in your pocket when you're not in the workshop.
An over zealous police officer might arrest you, even though I doubt the blade is more than 3.5 inches long. (And even that is probably illegal nowadays folding or otherwise.)

John
8)

 

[Anonymous]

Bevel both sides and rounded slightly as it is sharpened with a steel.

For a knife to mark and make a "true" cut (e.g. for a tenon shoulder) at least one face must be flat.

This is why you sometimes need to turn the blade over when using a cutting gauge. Otherwise the bevel slightly mars the finished work.

BugBear

It's that tangent thing again - a rounded bevel can make a "true" cut against the edge of a square - if the blade is tilted so that the cutting edge is up against the square. No problem at all.
Personally I'd only use a knife for a tenon shoulder for a clean cut, a pencil elsewhere.
But I notice knife marks on old work in many places including uncut lines.
I think this is because it was necessary to make an indelible line on stuff which might pass through many hands before being finished - the marking up from a rod being delegated to one chap perhaps.
This would also mean that the mark would need to be central - i.e. ideally cut with a knife bevelled both sides held vertically.

cheers
Jacob

 

[pam niedermayer]

....Try it both ways Pam, without moving the square of course. If you don't slope the knife, when you put the bevel against the square, I think you will find you end up with a 'tramline'... Not good, unless you are going to cut in between the lines. (I can't see the point.)

With flat side against the square, it's more accurate I believe, and the bevel pushes the sheared fibres AWAY from the line to the WASTE side, so they disappear when the waste is cut away, esp. in tenon shoulders. Which is what we want of course. I like a nice deep score myself, and some workers make the line into a 'v' shape, to better guide the saw.

Did I say something to make you think I'm new at this? Of course I did it with the flat side to the square, seems obvious; but I prefer Jeff's method, if for no other reason than the resulting line is closer to the square, more accurate.

As to scoring the line deeper, I almost always do that, but with a chisel a la Kingshott.

 

[Benchwayze]

Hi Pam,
No you didn't make me think you were new to woodwork.
I apologise for seeming to patronise you. It isn't my style. I just wanted to make my point, as it is surprising the experienced workers who don't know there is a right and wrong way to use a knife (depending on your preference of course). I have even met so called experts who didn't know how to test a square for truth!

So as sometimes the printed word comes across diffferetly than the spoken word, I apologise again.

As for Jim, I loved the man; met him a lot and always found he had time for anyone who would seriously listen. He was also very scathing to those who tried to trip him up on ground where he was very familiar.
But, again. I do apologise Pam.



To each our own, I just prefer flat side to the square.