fiveeyes
Established Member
To all of you in the UK...my sincerest condolences.
Manchester
- Thread starter fiveeyes
- Start date
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DoctorWibble
Established Member
Well yes thank you. 22 deaths 50 or more seriously injured. Its a terrible tragedy for them and likely a couple of thousand relatives and friends of theirs. That's a terrible lot of people. But its not an entire nation. Sympathy I feel should be directed solely to those actually affected. The rest of us are not victims of anything. And I don't think we should be encouraging grief tourism and vicariously victimhood. Its a recent but growing trend and I for one find it makes me very uncomfortable. It seems rather distasteful and disrespectful to those who actually have reason to grieve. A brother of mine lost a teenage child not long ago and I've seen first hand the pain. That pain though was and is his and his family's, not 70 million strangers on the internet.
AES
Established Member
Yeah, I understand where you're coming from Dr. Wibble, and you're certainly right to say "only" those actually suffering with dead or injured loved ones really feel the pain.
OTOH, I also think I understand where OP is coming from. In my case I have little real connections to UK these days (apart from a Passport), not having lived there for over 40 years now. I have even less connection to Manchester (I'm from the SE originally) but when I heard the news today I really did feel both sad and shocked - perhaps I shouldn't say so, but more so than when I heard about the Paris bomb for example (though the Berlin Christmas market attack last year also hit pretty hard).
Perhaps my feeling about Manchester is because although I have a Swiss Passport I'm still a Brit in many ways? Or perhaps it's "just" because kids are involved? I really don't know/can't really explain it.
But perhaps the OP also has some connection to UK, or to Manchester? Who knows? We don't, but I can certainly understand a feeling of wanting to "do/say/act" in some way, and posting as he has perhaps just helps the OP to relieve his own sad feelings a little?
It's certainly wrong to say "if you're not directly affected then you have no right to feel bad" - not that I see you saying that Doctor, I think it's "the condolences to everyone" that bothers you?
It really IS a difficult one, but surely, a the OP is a HELLUVA lot better than the "posts of glee" that apparently have been seen on social media by certain (sick) members of some communities following previous terrorist acts?
Anyway, I have little more to say really, except best of luck to those whom I understand from Swiss TV news are still in surgery.
AES
OTOH, I also think I understand where OP is coming from. In my case I have little real connections to UK these days (apart from a Passport), not having lived there for over 40 years now. I have even less connection to Manchester (I'm from the SE originally) but when I heard the news today I really did feel both sad and shocked - perhaps I shouldn't say so, but more so than when I heard about the Paris bomb for example (though the Berlin Christmas market attack last year also hit pretty hard).
Perhaps my feeling about Manchester is because although I have a Swiss Passport I'm still a Brit in many ways? Or perhaps it's "just" because kids are involved? I really don't know/can't really explain it.
But perhaps the OP also has some connection to UK, or to Manchester? Who knows? We don't, but I can certainly understand a feeling of wanting to "do/say/act" in some way, and posting as he has perhaps just helps the OP to relieve his own sad feelings a little?
It's certainly wrong to say "if you're not directly affected then you have no right to feel bad" - not that I see you saying that Doctor, I think it's "the condolences to everyone" that bothers you?
It really IS a difficult one, but surely, a the OP is a HELLUVA lot better than the "posts of glee" that apparently have been seen on social media by certain (sick) members of some communities following previous terrorist acts?
Anyway, I have little more to say really, except best of luck to those whom I understand from Swiss TV news are still in surgery.
AES
DoctorWibble
Established Member
I'm sure you're right AES on all points. And perhaps I ought to say to be clear that I intended no offence to fiveeyes or anyone else. I don't doubt for a moment that his heart is in exactly the right place. Really I just wanted to give pause. Recent events in my family made the media (locally anyway) and generated a lot of highly charged emotional comments from people none of us knew. I didn't for a minute doubt their sincerity but there was something rather voyeuristic about it at times. Like we had some exotic dish at a restaurant and they were all piling in with their forks.
There is another wider aspect to such events we ought to be mindful of. As I write this we've already had 24 hours of competitive emoting on the media. We'll have weeks more yet. This morning BBC Radio 4's Womens Hour were already putting out telephone help lines specifically for those not involved or directly affected but who feel upset and would like to talk to someone. There was talk of people not going to work. There were long features on what to say to our children and so on. The well oiled reaction to terrorism is becoming a routine commercial operation in news outlets. To an extent I think this entirely synthetic hysteria only amplifies the effect the promoters of terrorism have in mind. If all it takes is a handful of cruelly placed bombs to get the entire Western world spinning this fast then we'll surely never be free from terrorist threats whether motivated by present grievances or future ones, real or imagined.
There is another wider aspect to such events we ought to be mindful of. As I write this we've already had 24 hours of competitive emoting on the media. We'll have weeks more yet. This morning BBC Radio 4's Womens Hour were already putting out telephone help lines specifically for those not involved or directly affected but who feel upset and would like to talk to someone. There was talk of people not going to work. There were long features on what to say to our children and so on. The well oiled reaction to terrorism is becoming a routine commercial operation in news outlets. To an extent I think this entirely synthetic hysteria only amplifies the effect the promoters of terrorism have in mind. If all it takes is a handful of cruelly placed bombs to get the entire Western world spinning this fast then we'll surely never be free from terrorist threats whether motivated by present grievances or future ones, real or imagined.
Cheshirechappie
Established Member
fiveeyes":ettxrkho said:
Taking the comment in the spirit in which it was intended - thanks.
Sadly, Manchester and surrounding area has had it's brushes with terrorism over the years. The IRA tried to blow up the Arndale Centre (big mall in the middle of Manchester) a couple of decades ago. Nobody killed, but the subsequent mess caused several small businesses to fail; other than that, all it did was improve the city's architecture slightly. A few miles down the road in Warrington, the IRA planted a bomb in a litter bin in the town centre, which caused two deaths; a two year old and a twelve year old. So events like this are not new, though this one is particularly nasty.
I do rather share the thoughts expressed above by others about the media and their emoting, but it's easy enough to switch it off once you've heard the known facts reported. Have to admit I find myself doing that more and more these days, and not just over recent events in Manchester. There are other sources of news and views if you hunt about a bit.
As to the wider ramifications, it's rather hard to see how an ideology that regards slaughtering teenage girls at a pop concert as an acceptable action has anything positive to offer the world. Sooner it's stamped out, the better. In the meantime, we just keep calm and carry on, and uphold the values of the free world - freedom, free speech, tolerance and sharpening debates. OK - maybe not sharpening debates.....
Phil Pascoe
Established Member
DoctorWibble":16wy1v94 said:
I suggested yesterday on a thread in The Times that the media should report it on as normal news in one line and move on so as not to give the bomber/s the publicity they were aiming for, and I was roundly condemned - yet in a couple of weeks all politicians and media etc. will be sittting round a table deciding these people shouldn't get publicity. :?
thetyreman
Established Member
no-one I know died in the event, but thanks for caring anyway, I have already moved on, it's not productive to spend any more time talking about it, by talking about it you are giving the perpetrators more and more power.
graduate_owner
Established Member
Having listened to the extended news broadcasts regarding this appalling and cowardly act, the expression " the oxygen of publicity" sprang to mind.
K
K
stuartpaul
Established Member
Indeed.graduate_owner":2xcvacxf said:
I wondered if this almost excruciating level of publicity would help make up someones mind who might be on the cusp of something similar? i.e. 'I'll have me some of that publicity'?
