Making the most of a budget table saw, mitre saw and bandsaw

[YorkshireMartin]

How is that evolution mitre saw for accuracy now? The one I have pushes the left hand top half of the fence out when you tighten it so it will never cut truly square. Had to relegate it to rough cutting and metal.

 

[Eric The Viking]

The other issue is the large angle section sits flush with the table and therefore the smaller angle section for the fence is protruding causing issues when feeding stuff in and a nuisance when the mitre gauge is needed as the angle has to be removed...this is a quick job though so maybe not something to worry about seeing as I have 2 other potential saws to use for that!

That bandsaw fence, I think is really nice.

Might you adapt the bolt holes to be slots instead, so you only need to loosen the bolts slightly and lift the "Track" off to use the mitre sled? My old SIP is very secondhand: at some point in its life someone did that to its rail (I think because you have to remove its rail to change blades). There is, or should be, relatively little pressure on the fence, so the rail doesn't have a lot of force on it, so slots (with washers) shouldn't be a nuisance. Failing that, might you simply cut a slot in the angle to take the mitre sled's bar? I doubt it would have much effect on the fence arrangements. Although it would weaken the angle a bit, that probably doesn't matter much.

Personally I wouldn't countersink the bolts (if I understood your post on this, you're intend to countersink the bolts on the angle/rail), as it removes the ease of adjustment, if you need it. Slots + washers would be a lot better for this. If you find there is a fence setting where they get in the way (there almost certainly will be), consider just using a piece of straight board as an auxiliary fence so that you don't have to lock it in the 'nuisance' position.

Regarding tracking, etc. You do need to do this with every blade change, but it becomes a quick routine. If you're starting with the wheels in good order (tyres, bearings, etc.), and coplanar with each other (in line), and at right angles to the mitre slot, then it should be fairly easy to get it to track accurately. You can correct for drift - Steve Maskery has an excellent bandsaw DVD which I learned from - but if it's set up right you can eliminate drift for all practical purposes.

I feel your pain regarding that mitre fence - mine on an Elektra Beckum was similarly bent, although not as bad. It's a very similar design too, and I think part of the problem is that the castings are machined before the metal has "settled", and/or the machining operations allow the metal to get too hot. I still haven't fixed mine completely, but I vastly improved it with a big hammer! I can't split it, because there aren't enough mountings to hold each side independently (and your setup must now be horrid!).

Nice work though!

E.

 

[curtisrider]

Looking at your new fence - I think the consensus is that it is best to have it ending at or just beyond the blade, and not go the width of the table. I admit to rarely cutting veneers, but I can't remember the last time I used a fence at all - I find it more accurate without.

I did notice some bandsaws have short fences, is there a reason for that?

 

[curtisrider]

My experience with a bandsaw fence is that it does not necessarily need to be parallel to the mitre slot but needs to track the cutting angle of the blade action.

So adjust it according to the amount the wood drifts to one side do you mean?

 

[curtisrider]

How is that evolution mitre saw for accuracy now? The one I have pushes the left hand top half of the fence out when you tighten it so it will never cut truly square. Had to relegate it to rough cutting and metal.

It's very good! The Freud blade seems to deflect less than the standard Evolution one and all the cuts so far have been spot on. My brother is borrowing it at the moment to do a complete wooden floor, skirting and architrave for his new build place so I'll see how he gets on with it, initial impressions were very positive.

 

[curtisrider]

That bandsaw fence, I think is really nice.

Might you adapt the bolt holes to be slots instead, so you only need to loosen the bolts slightly and lift the "Track" off to use the mitre sled? My old SIP is very secondhand: at some point in its life someone did that to its rail (I think because you have to remove its rail to change blades). There is, or should be, relatively little pressure on the fence, so the rail doesn't have a lot of force on it, so slots (with washers) shouldn't be a nuisance. Failing that, might you simply cut a slot in the angle to take the mitre sled's bar? I doubt it would have much effect on the fence arrangements. Although it would weaken the angle a bit, that probably doesn't matter much.

Personally I wouldn't countersink the bolts (if I understood your post on this, you're intend to countersink the bolts on the angle/rail), as it removes the ease of adjustment, if you need it. Slots + washers would be a lot better for this. If you find there is a fence setting where they get in the way (there almost certainly will be), consider just using a piece of straight board as an auxiliary fence so that you don't have to lock it in the 'nuisance' position.

Regarding tracking, etc. You do need to do this with every blade change, but it becomes a quick routine. If you're starting with the wheels in good order (tyres, bearings, etc.), and coplanar with each other (in line), and at right angles to the mitre slot, then it should be fairly easy to get it to track accurately. You can correct for drift - Steve Maskery has an excellent bandsaw DVD which I learned from - but if it's set up right you can eliminate drift for all practical purposes.

I feel your pain regarding that mitre fence - mine on an Elektra Beckum was similarly bent, although not as bad. It's a very similar design too, and I think part of the problem is that the castings are machined before the metal has "settled", and/or the machining operations allow the metal to get too hot. I still haven't fixed mine completely, but I vastly improved it with a big hammer! I can't split it, because there aren't enough mountings to hold each side independently (and your setup must now be horrid!).

Nice work though!

E.

I've got countersunk bolts in there now and it has been absolutely fine. I will chop out a small bit for the mitre rail when the new trunnions arrive (I broke them moving the bandsaw to my workshop), I think that will work a treat. Breaking the trunnions was a blessing in disguise, as now I know why my mitre slot wasn't parallel with the blades cut, there's quite a lot of adjustment there!

The fence on the mitre saw is surprisingly easy to set up now it's in 2 pieces. I set up the non motor side first so it's 90 to the blade, then use a straight edge to align the other side with it, check again with a square and it's all good to go!

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Looking at your new fence - I think the consensus is that it is best to have it ending at or just beyond the blade, and not go the width of the table. I admit to rarely cutting veneers, but I can't remember the last time I used a fence at all - I find it more accurate without.

I did notice some bandsaws have short fences, is there a reason for that?

Yes, it's so that if you release any hidden tension in the wood and the cut opens up, the inside piece doesn't have anything to push against , so won't push your cut off line.

 

[devonwoody]

My experience with a bandsaw fence is that it does not necessarily need to be parallel to the mitre slot but needs to track the cutting angle of the blade action.

So adjust it according to the amount the wood drifts to one side do you mean?

That as always been my experience, (plus two true wood faces under and side face)

 

[Eric The Viking]

I did notice some bandsaws have short fences, is there a reason for that?

Yes, it's so that if you release any hidden tension in the wood and the cut opens up, the inside piece doesn't have anything to push against , so won't push your cut off line.

It makes sense - big bandsaws for planking felled timber usually don't have any sort of fence at all. They simply rely on the carriage movement to be straight (either carrying the saw or the trunk, depending on design). I think they also have relatively little set on the teeth too, meaning they'd tend to follow any timber movement rather than cut straight, so it can't be a huge problem, otherwise they'd do it a different way.

In the past I've clamped the fence on mine at both ends, as the rail isn't very strong and that stops it bending, but I've also had problems when trying to get straight cuts through twisty-grain timber. You've made me think about alternative approaches.

E.

 

[devonwoody]

I did notice some bandsaws have short fences, is there a reason for that?

Yes, it's so that if you release any hidden tension in the wood and the cut opens up, the inside piece doesn't have anything to push against , so won't push your cut off line.

It makes sense - big bandsaws for planking felled timber usually don't have any sort of fence at all. They simply rely on the carriage movement to be straight (either carrying the saw or the trunk, depending on design). I think they also have relatively little set on the teeth too, meaning they'd tend to follow any timber movement rather than cut straight, so it can't be a huge problem, otherwise they'd do it a different way.

In the past I've clamped the fence on mine at both ends, as the rail isn't very strong and that stops it bending, but I've also had problems when trying to get straight cuts through twisty-grain timber. You've made me think about alternative approaches.

My thoughts Eric reading your post re short fences. Madr me think I might add a short loose straight length of timber alongside my existing fence if needed because of released timber tension when needed.

E.

 

[delboy47]

Not wishing to hijack the thread but as there has been mention of the Evolution SCMS, I bought one some time ago when my previous saw gave up the ghost. In terms of accuracy and finish of cuts it seems fine for what I do anyway, but my problem is kickback. I seem to be getting this so much that I am now wary of using the saw. I even sometimes get it when simply "chopping" smaller stock that does not require the sliding action.

Before I finally decide to get shot of it and replace with something else, have any other users of this saw had similar experiences? My previous mitre saw wasn't sliding but I never experienced any kickback with that. I now basically hold my breath and close my eyes and stand off to one side. That doesn't help though.

Any comments/help gratefully received.

Thanks guys.

 

[Eric The Viking]

You should have a blade that has negative rake teeth. It sounds as though the wrong type has been fitted - it shouldn't depend on the brand of saw at all.

At least, that's where I'd start to look for the problem.

Does it have hold-down clamps? They certainly help, too.

 

[scosteve]

Prob a good idea to take apart and rebuild to make sure that looks OK, at least to the point it was when purchased. If new blade doesn't sort it I would.

Mines used a fair bit for old cheap decking/flooring/pallets etc with nails and junk and the blades still flying through anything I throw at it, 2 maybe 3 years. Set it up straight and mine stays straight but it doesn't like being adjusted.

Never thought about trying a decent wood blade till this thread

Best of luck

Steve

 

[Steve Maskery]

That fence looks pretty much identical to the one I show in one of DVDs. It is an excellent design (not all mine, unfortunately, although I did change one or two bits from the original to make it easier to make).
As regards long v short fences, it's not so critical on a BS as on a TS, but Phil's point on the kerf opening up does stand. But I wouldn't want to cut veneers with a short fence. As with the TS it's horses for courses, some tasks are best done with a short fence others with a long one.

 

[delboy47]

Thanks for the comments Gents. The blade looks like zero rake angle to me but I think I will first try a new negative rake wood blade and see how that performs and go from there.
Cheers
Del

 

[Freddyjersey2016]

I upgraded an old mitre saw & my portable circular saw with Axminster tools Axcaliber Contract blades - not expensive and do the job for me.

 

[AJB Temple]

Curtis rider I say well done to you both for upgrading your tools and sharing it on here. I guess there is a point of diminishing returns where working on the tool stops you working on your projects. Thanks for sharing.

 

[curtisrider]

Cheers fellas, it's funny this topic got bumped up as I finally got a chance a few nights a go to set up the 12" contractor saw I bought! It was massively out of alignment when I received it and rattled a worrying amount! I aligned it all, set up the stops, fitted a new mains wire, got a couple of new blades (original is off to be sharpened so I should be well equipped), built in an Axminster big mouth dust shroud and fitted a new belt (one of those ones made of links VS a standard v belt). I'm a little confused why mine can take 12" blades, it seems a copy of all the 10" contractor saws they have in the states yet clearly states it has a 12" capacity, I can even fit a dado blade if I wished.

The difference is amazing, it's so quiet compared to how it was when I bought it and also compared to the brushed Makita I rebuilt which is still going nicely, I let my brother have it as I don't need it now. Cuts are smooth and most importantly straight! Even the fence that came with it is surprisingly good! I have nearly finished making a sled for it too and I have a few other bits in mind to make.

 

[curtisrider]

My Evolution saw died, the motor casing melted near a brush holder and the saw guard was starting to not retract which is a shame. Fortunately I can use it for parts for my dads identical saw so all is not lost. This left me with a problem as I needed a replacement saw but did not have enough money to buy the new larger one I wanted. A quick look through Gumtree resulted in me finding very little available apart from one very overpriced Einhell saw (£150!) that was 10minutes away. Usually I wouldn't bother clicking on something like that but fortunately I did and the guy wanted to swap for a flip saw/table saw.... I had a nearly new Scheppach HS100S table saw I bought from B&Q for £50 on clearance as it needed some parts for the base (10 minute job to maker and fit!) which was not required and so I gave him a call and offered him a swap, he agreed and we arranged for me to go over so we could check the saws out. The Einhell was not in the condition stated, the blade was loose, the brush holder cap missing (something else was wedged in to hold it), laser broken, adjustment lever snapped and the sliders were rusty. It was all fine apart from that and everything worked well enough for me to agree the swap as I figured it was effectively £50 and i could fix the issues quickly and cheaply.

https://www.gumtree.com/p/power-saws/einhell-sliding-compound-saw/1191172045

The Einhell was in a sorry state so I pulled it apart, regreased the pivots, soldered a new battery box onto the laser as the original had a broken switch, cleaned the sliders as well as I could without removing too much material, cleaned and tightened the blade, cleaned the armature and fixed the brush holder the best I could (the tape stops it popping out!) and set all the stops and fence up so everything was running true. Fortunately it came with a very nice Trend blade that is still plenty sharp enough to provide smooth cuts which was an added bonus! The Einhell has a 250mm blade vs the 210mm on the Evo and long siders allowing wider boards to be cut, perfect! It all works beautifully now, the cuts are true and since cleaning the armature it runs faster and slightly quieter, there is no noticeable play in any of the moving parts unlike some of the other cheaper SCMS I have tried out. I cut a bunch of feather edge for a barn i'm refurbishing and it was a pleasure to use.

The size difference!

Sliders are now smooth but visually look awful, unsure as to why they haven't been chromed like others?

AA battery holder and switch to replace the broken AAA holder

Trend blade

At work:

Very chuffed!

This is the 12" table saw I have been banging on about that I got for £40:

I can't seem to find anything about my particular saw however it does seem to be a clone of the US contractor saws.

 

[Eric The Viking]

That Trend blade in your SCMS is very similar to (actually, I think the same as) the one I have in my own SCMS. Be careful - it is NOT negative rake. My saw is a different construction to yours - it doesn't have slide and tilt-at-the-end, but I still get kickback if I'm careless. It does produce excellent cuts if sharp, but it's really the wrong design for the purpose. They can be sharpened several times, and having it very sharp is one thing that will reduce the risk (but only a bit).

Just sayin'

E.

PS: the table saw looks like an absolute steal! :mrgreen: