Making Crittall doors in wood

[peter-harrison]

I've been asked to make something like the attached in wood. What is the narrowest section I could use for the stiles and rails? The client is open to having the sections thicker than normal to make up, but that doesn't help much with stability.
And what would be the best timber?
They are going to be internal, and are going to be sprayed black.
Thanks for looking!

 

[MikeG.]

With a full height door (or two) in it?

 

[SteveF]

could i suggest you rename that picture

 

[Droogs]

Due to the narrow nature of the frame I would suggest Ash as it is very stable when dried properly and strong and straight grained and takes primer well

 

[peter-harrison]

Here's a renamed pic

 

[Bod]

If it's going to be painted, does it have to be wood?

Bod

 

[Brandlin]

Here's a renamed pic

The point of renaming it was not to splash your clients address across the internet.
Edit the original post and put the renamed image in there....

 

[peter-harrison]

Hi Bod, they want wood because they think it will be cheaper.

 

[thetyreman]

poplar if it's to be painted

 

[ColeyS1]

That looks like a rather high ceiling ?

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[woodbrains]

Hello,

You are not going to get even close to those narrow dimensions. I would avoid the job. Lots of people like the look of something but are unwilling to pay what it costs. You are onto a hiding to nothing if you entertain this job. The client will complain that the thick rails and stiles don't look like the picture, despite needing to be to get any strength in the joinery to hold that considerable weight of toughened glass. Or the thing will be so flimsy it will end in catastrophic failure and injure someone.

Poplar is not a good suggestion either, despite being good for paint, it is as weak as a wet lettuce and would need to be even thicker.

Do yourself a favour and politely declined the job.

Mike.

 

[ColeyS1]

My suggestion was gonna be a 4 inch stile on a massive opening might not look out of place. A scaled drawing takes away any 'I didn't expect it to look like that' scenario. Out of curiousity what size is the opening?

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[tony_s]

I looked into something very similar to this a couple of years ago and agree with woodbrains. Avoid.

 

[Droogs]

Why not get a couple of brochures from some of the companies that offer hardwood Crittall windows and see what they use. If it's for asthetic reasons they want would it may be better to have them made from metal and then reface with wood.

 

[RogerS]

I 'third' what woodbrains has said. I'm all for this sections but those are going to droop and twist with the weight of the glass. Avoid.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

^^^^ +4
to start with, the glass will have to be 6mm it'll end up even heavier than first appears.

Even if that opening is only say about 2.5m x 3m (it's probably larger) that's about 112kg of glass - nearly two and half hundredweight to us of a certain age.

 

[tomatwark]

Hi Bod, they want wood because they think it will be cheaper.

That statement should tell you something on its own, I would walk from this job.

 

[peter-harrison]

Thanks for all your responses. It's for an old friend so I'll persevere. I'll give them a scale drawing plus sample sections. The glass will triangulate the doors I guess, so they shouldn't sag(?) the main problem I foresee is them being quite flexible. Thanks for the suggestion re ash- that seems like a good choice.

 

[RobinBHM]

I once made some secondary glazing using 4mm toughened and timber about 35mm x 16mm. No joints, it was stuck to the glass with silicone.

I was surprised how strong it was when assembled and the silicone set.

What about making the doors with 1 single sheet of glass and fully bond it to your timber frame?

For the mid rails stick thin timbers either side with georgian bar tape.

 

[Adam9453]

We've done these before and they initially failed when made as a joinery door. However if you use a door blank and cut a centre aperture out leaving a rebated edge to one side to glaze up against, then fit the single large pain of glass and fit the remaining glazing beads lattice frames to secure in place and give you the multi pane effect. Pin beads into edge of door blank and use silicone to stick it to the glass. You'll need to keep the perimeter of the door blank as wide as possible to avoid it warping. Hardwood lippings also need applying to cover the blank edges and also aid in avoiding warping.

However, ultimately if they really want thin frames all round, they need to be metal.