machines for new workshop

[Tonytygwyn]

I've been looking at buying machinery for my new workshop, just a few questions that everyone may be able to help me with.

I have looked at the following manufactures. Axminster, Hammer/Felder, Robland, Scheppach, and many others

Hammer/Felder look great but I cant afford them.

I've decided to get them all from one supplier to try and increase my buying power to negotiate a better price, and have decided on Scheppach.

This is my list of equipment that I'm looking to buy

Table saw Precisa 4.0
Bandsaw Basa 5
Planer thicknesser Plana 4.0
Spindle Molda 5.0f
Wolva 4.0 dust extractor
Tiger 5.0 wet grinder
Lata 7.0 lathe


I'm I making a glaring mistake with any of these machines?
What's the general consensus with Scheppach machines?
I've been told to try and get the machines made in Germany not the ones made in China.

Thanks for any replies.

 

[PAC1]

It would help if you could tell us a bit about your plans? Hobby, trade, training, new business etc

 

[RogerBoyle]

we really need more info on the type of woodwork that you want to do and how you plan to do it
Do you have the room for a large table saw
Do you plan on cutting down MFC sheets if so you will need a saw with a scoring blade

 

[AJB Temple]

Hmmm. Scheppach is regarded as a low end brand in Germany and routinely seen in the DIY sheds. Good luck with finding German made gear! I have one Scheppach machine: a bench grinder. The guard fairings and sight protectors are flimsy. I also have a Draper trade rated bench grinder (converted to a polisher) that cost only slightly more and is massively more robust and a lot more powerful. You get what you pay for. If you are just doing hobby work at low volume, Scheppach is cheap. If you are doing quality work / trade / high volume, then Scheppach is expensive (because you will soon be in the market again). I very much doubt that you will increase your buying power much at all by buying one brand: what you WILL do is make a lot of quality compromises.

In your shoes I would look to buy the best item of each piece of equipment within my budget. For some of these machines (lathe for example) you could get a material quality upgrade by buying used from a turner who is also upgrading.

You can also do much better than this on a bandsaw.

You may well find a supplier who stocks multiple brands who is willing to offer you additional discounts if you source through them.

Don't be too hasty. And have fun in your machinery search: good time of year to find bargains.

Adrian

 

[AJB Temple]

Duplicate

 

[Wizard9999]

Scheppach is regarded as a low end brand in Germany and routinely seen in the DIY sheds...
...I have one Scheppach machine: a bench grinder. The guard fairings and sight protectors are flimsy. I also have a Draper trade rated bench grinder (converted to a polisher) that cost only slightly more and is massively more robust and a lot more powerful. You get what you pay for.

Recently I found out that NMA (UK Scheppach agent I believe) has been deep discounting the Plana 3.0 via eBay. Not a model you are considering I know, but one of the possible conclusions I reached is that the kit is overpriced with extremely high margins (and to be fair the other conclusion is more worrying). AJB's grinder experience would seem to support that conclusion.

You can also do much better than this on a bandsaw.

If I had £2k to spend on a bandsaw I would struggle to ignore the Hammer 4400 or Startrite 403 at £200 and £600 less than the Scheppach respectively.

Terry.

 

[Tonytygwyn]

A bit more info.

I hope to be making bespoke furniture in a small workshop 11m by 5m in size.
I might diversify into kitchen cabinets etc so will need to handle panel products.
I only have single phase.

 

[adidat]

Dont know what budget is. But for space saving a large saw spindle is fantastic. Felder do quite good credit i seem to remember?

Adidat

 

[PAC1]

A bit more info.

I hope to be making bespoke furniture in a small workshop 11m by 5m in size.
I might diversify into kitchen cabinets etc so will need to handle panel products.
I only have single phase.

When you say "hope" is that you want to get into making bespoke furniture or you have loads of clients waiting for your new workshop?

 

[Tonytygwyn]

I want to get into making bespoke furniture... No commissions as yet. but I do have lots of little jobs for family and friends to get my teeth into.

 

[sitefive]

That's a looooooooooooot of £ to drop... are you already making furniture and have already enough orders coming in or you are just planing to start a new hobby/occupation?
You will soon realize that making furniture for others is damn hard job and takes 2-3x more time than you actually thought, and it's not that easy to get new customers at all.. Started my venture and switched from completely different occupation about half a year ago (marketing,as was tired sitting at PC all day long,however it has helped me in getting new customers in for my woodworking stuff)

To be honest I have only now earned back the £ I have spent on the equipment and I Bought almost everything 2nd hand always looking for a deal, If I have to work out the hourly rate I get, I get Maybe £15-£20/hour If I work fast and work my *** off- that is If I got enough orders to fill! However If I include the time it takes to get new customers, do research about new methods,what tools to get ,picking up timber I Probably earn a minimum wage I do hope I can increase that with time as for the work I'm putting in that's peanuts compared to what I was able to earn in my previous job for the same amount of effort.

Question is Have you really got that much money to burn and throw away on buying all that and couldn't you just buy stuff as you go and go for used machines?

 

[BearTricks]

I'd probably recommended what everyone does and say buy what you need as and when you need it.
Decide what your first job is and get the tools that you need for that job. Wood turning for example is a skill in itself and a lot of workshops don't even include a lathe.

A router table might be a better idea than a spindle moulder but you might not realise that until you need a removable router.

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk

 

[Wizard9999]

Damn it, I have just realised I completely missed a trick when I set up my workshop. I should have told SWMBO it was a new business b&p venture then I could have spent loads more on kit :lol: .

By the way, lovely part of the world you live in, we have rented a cottage a couple, of times not that far up the road. We even thought about buying a holiday home in the area (well I did, SWMBO said no). But, without starting some sort of argument based on location, when I did look at property the prices were very reasonable, so are there enough people in the area with the disposable income to pay the sort of prices you will need to charge for bespoke furniture?

Terry.

 

[shed9]

I had a similar situation myself in kitting up a whole workshop and mostly went the Hammer route and so glad I did. As others say, get the best you can afford - even if it means delaying purchasing your entire kit list.

I'm virtually down the road from you (Brechfa), PM me, happy to offer what ever advice I can.

 

[custard]

Hello Tony, I've met some of the very best craftsmen in this country, the makers that are used by some of the biggest name designers to create their Guild Mark winning pieces. I'm often astonished when I visit some of their workshops at just how rudimentary their equipment is. So skill generally trumps kit when it comes to bespoke pieces.

On the other hand I don't know a single kitchen maker who could survive without a professional dimension saw that is dead on accurate across a full 4'x 8' sheet, and more to the point, remains accurate day in day out despite getting heavy 18mm sheets dumped on the sliding table. Plus a scoring blade facility is pretty useful if you're doing higher volume work in ply or veneered MDF.

In other words, if your budget's limited you need to think very hard about where your production priorities lie. Do you really need a lathe or are you just trying to cover all the bases? And where's the drill press on your list?

I'm also puzzled when you say you can't afford Hammer/Felder, take this as an example,

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Felder-CF-531 ... SwEgVWRwTA

I know it's 3 phase, but hunt around and you'll find a 240v version, furthermore you can often find them cheaper and with more tooling thrown in. Maybe I'm way out on the cost of Scheppach kit, but this isn't a country mile more expensive than the Table Saw, Planer, and Spindle on your list, but it will be a lot more accurate and reliable, furthermore it will give you a lot more bench/glue-up/assembley space in a 55 square metre workshop, and you'll be aghast at how space hungry fitted kitchen/bedroom work can be.

One final thing to chuck in the mix, do you have a plan B in case furniture/kitchen cabs doesn't work out? For example if you end up supplementing your furniture income with teaching courses will you have the equipment necessary to segue into that plan? And, perish the thought, but if you bail out completely then you'll lose a lot less money on second hand Felder/Hammer than on new Scheppach.

Just my thoughts.

Good luck and a happy new year!

 

[davin]

As mentioned if I had my time again I would buy the best panel saw (with scribing blade) and the best planer thicknesser I could afford. Buy a lathe when you need one, buy everything else from the Fridayad or ebay. The machines I have found on Fridayad! normally old boys pride and joy who have moved on to the big shed in the sky.
If you are ready to buy now I would ring some machine dealers, they normally have good serviced machines and would probably do a good deal in a quiet month like January.
Also as mentioned, it's amazing what you can do with pretty basic machinery.
Good luck

 

[heimlaga]

I have made one-off doors and windows as a side income for several years...... and will start doing it again as soon as my back is healthy enough.

My limited experience indicated that you should take a step back and think. Try to choose your tools to fit your needs.

-If you are going to make chipboard kitchen cabinets you need a full size sliding table saw. Preferably equipped with a scoring blade. For instance an used but not too old Altendorf or Martin or something like that. There is really no cost effective workaround for this......
-If you are going to make high end furniture you will end up buying rough sawn timber and dimensioning it yourself. That means that a big solid planer and a big solid thicknesser or an equivalent combination machine is mandatory. There is no way around it. Scheppach makes hobby mashines that aren't built for this kind of work. I would suggest an old monster sized combination because that would give you most machine for the money and the space.
-Small spindle moulders are a pain to use. The one I have as part of my combination machine has only a 3hp motor and that is the absolute minimum size for any kind of work. If you buy only one spindle moulder you need something better. It should have either a sliding table or a bolt-on tennoning sled so you can use it as a tennoner as well..... and of cause a power feeder. A tilting spindle would save some tooling costs and make the machine more versatile but you can live without it and save money. Fixed spindle machines are way cheaper secondhand than tilting spindle machines.

If you are a good scrounger and repairman you should be able to get theese machines secondhand for the same cost as the Scheppach hobby mashines you were looking at. The only problem is your lack of 3 phase power.......could you set up some kind of converter?


Im my case I tried to analyze every need and find the cheapest machine that can do the job efficiently enough. I found that a Stenberg KEV 600 four in one combination machine from 1957 and a Naula mortiser from the late 40-ies and an E.V.Beronius 24" bandsaw from the 1910-s were the ideal machines for me. Of cause I have had to upgrade all of them to modern standards and rebuild them thoroughly.
I still need a big separate spindle moulder. I may end up modernizing an old Jonsered FM-C which I got for scrap value but the ideal machine for my needs would be a lot more modern. Preferably a 1980-ies l'Invincible or 1970-ies Bäuerle.....and just like you I lack the money.
For my needs a small four side planer and a big rip saw would come in handy though they aren't absulutely essential. I will soon start work on an 1885 rip saw which I dragged out of the bushes behind an old barn and bought for 20 euros.

Try to think ....and be creative!

 

[Tonytygwyn]

Just to answer some of your queries, I'm in the fortunate position that I have redundancy from 20 years working in IT so I did have a healthy budget for Machinery.

I don't have many commissions as yet from the paying public. But as we are currently going to start the renovation of a barn into a holiday let and a complete house renovation I have 2 Kitchens, 4 bathrooms, 1 study, 1 fitted dressing room and several items of furniture to make to furnish both properties so I keep telling myself and more importantly SWMBO that the savings on these will offset the cost on the machines.

After a lot of thinking and taking on board some of your advice

I've just paid the deposit for new Hammer kit

Decided on
B3 Perform Saw/Spindle (with additional router spindle kit and power feed)
F22 wall Mounted dust extractor
A3 31 planner thicknesser (with spiral cutter block)
N4440 bandsaw

I took your advice on the Lathe will get this later if still required.

I'm really excited can't wait till they arrive... When they said March fro delivery :shock: but good things come to those who wait.....

Well I have time to finish the workshop

 

[PAC1]

Some excellent kit. One thing to consider with Felder/Hammer is to try and buy the tooling and tables etc when they have a sale on. For instance they will heavily discount some tables and spindle tooling. Also the saw blades are best bought when there is an offer. They often do a big discount if you buy their 3 blade offer Rip, cross cut and ultra fine are a good selection to own. They have probably got an offer on now and then will do another around Easter.

 

[custard]

Good choice, as well as Felder machinery I also use the N4400 so any questions don't hesitate to ask. You won't regret the power feed for the spindle moulder, especially as you've got so much joinery work on your to-do list, it's a lot safer and really improves finish quality, just don't despair when the first set up takes a couple of hours, you'll get a lot faster with practise!

Good luck!