Long plywood kitchen cabinets

[alexnharvey]

Hello. I would like to make my own kitchen cabinets. I want to minimise having the double vertical walls which are a consequence of the standard units and the spacers which are required where no unit will fit, effectively creating a made to measure kitchen.

I would like to use birch plywood for the units, or similar. I anticipate having the ply laminate "end grain" visible as a feature, rather than hiding it with inserts or tape. I might use melamine faced ply in places, particularly the inside bottom faces on which items rest. The doors might also be melamine or fenix ntm faced.

I am wondering if i can use 2400mm long sections to form the tops and bottoms of the units and then have the sides inserted between those, either in dados cut into the long pieces, or fixed by one of the other common methods, dowels or confirmat type screws. As I will not be creating feet for the cabinets by using full height walls I could use plastic legs to support the cabinets and attach them to the walls at the rear, but it is not out of the question to use wooden legs if these would be better.

Is there an obvious reason not to do it this way or is it a reasonable design choice?

 

[Spectric]

Before starting this I would read some books on the subject and get a bigger picture of different approaches so you can work towards something you want. For me you can initially divide kitchens into two groups, the sheet material boxes often MDF but also ply where things like euro hinges are used or my preffered style is more traditional and chunky, here you can use a panel and frame design where the ply slots into the uprights.

 

[niall Y]

HI, in principal it is as good a way as any of building a kitchen. But there are things to take into account.
If you are building long units away from the kitchen - will you be able to get them in there, afterwards?
Ply is fine for cabinets , but if you are having the edges on show, you will need a good quality board. You won't want any voids, or veneer folds, to spoil the look. Birch-ply, an ideal candidate, is both costly and in short supply, due to the embargo on trade with Russia. An alternative is Poplar-ply ,which also has nice neat edges, but is easily dented.

Plastic legs are fine for small individual units, that you can hoick off the ground and place where needed, but with a long unit that has to be slid, you are in danger of snapping the legs unless you take care

If you are applying a worktop to the cabinets after fitting, then there is no advantage to a whole ply top. A strip to the front only, will be fine. This will also give a cost and weight saving

 

[Agent_zed]

If you watch any of the American renovation shows they seem to make all their custom cabinets out of plywood and from what I can see they are often pocket screwed together. They then spray paint in situ.

Can't see any reason not to do what you are thinking.

 

[alexnharvey]

Thank you all. @Spectric I am leaning towards euro style where the doors and drawers hide the cabinets rather than 'in frame' style. If I were to do an in-frame style I would probably cheat and use a faux frame attached to the front of the cabinets, as indeed many of the 'mid range' kitchen makers seem to use this method with mdf framing style pieces.
There are some plywood inset kitchens (e.g. plyko) which use the ply itself to create a frame for the doors, so the doors sit within the cabinet rather than closing onto it. This creates quite an interesting effect but I think my wife would prefer the seamless euro kitchen look.

@niall Y My plan would be to cut and finish the cabinet pieces in my garage, create any dados (if using) and then assemble the cabinets in situ. It is a good point that I do not need a full top piece for the cabinets if there will be a worktop, unless my wife accepts an integrated plywood with fenix/melamine top face as the worksurface. I was planning to use birch ply with cosmetically acceptable edges, although if the edges are to be hidden by the doors it is not quite so important and ply is very expensive at present. I may tot up the material cost and find I have to reconsider faced chipboard or mdf for the cabinets and prioritise the doors and drawer fronts for the fancier materials. I hadn't considered the issue of not being able to slide the plastic legs. That will need some more thought. I might bridge across the legs with some cheap material to create a kind of plinth that the cabinet would rest on.

@Agent_zed Pocket screws would be quite a good and quick method of assembly.

 

[Spectric]

One thing to bear in mind is what tools do you have, this can dictate what direction you go. I think having faceframes is more of the bespoke kitchen market but can be easier to make. As for your ply edges this is another area that you need to read about, you can use hardwood edging that hides the ends which can be fitted using any of several methods. The one I use is done on a router table using these Edge Banding Bits - Infinity Tools
but people have used biscuits or just simple tongue & grove. Now your ply has nice edges it opens up other possibilities, but you will need to cut it clean and square so a decent tracksaw would be very handy.

 

[alexnharvey]

Track saw and pocket screws is the current plan tool wise. If I can avoid dados it seems like it makes my life much easier.

Have you made your kitchen @Spectric , I saw some of your deliberations in older threads.

 

[Spectric]

Not yet, still working on other projects but aim to use a freestanding style using panel and frames which means I dont have to be extremely accurate with the ply panels and not much edging. Cost of ply has rocketed but I much prefer it over MDF as it looks like wood and is not such a filthy material to work with.

 

[COWS]

Birch ply would be my go to for kitchen carcasses. If you can build it in 2400mm sections, see no problems with that. As for elevating it off the ground, you might consider building a 150mm high plinth... like an open top box. Leave a gap to the wall to run services etc and take off the front what you require for kick space.

I perhaps wouldn't dado the partitions as dowels, biscuits, dominos with screws would be more than strong enough. As niall y says, just a strip along the front will be fine to tie the partitions together. Use a 9mm ply for the backs too.

If you want a melamine surface for bottom/mid shelf, I'd use a high pressure laminate and contact adhesive on side you want to use before assembly. Eggar, Formica, Polyrey are all pretty good and you'll find pretty much any colour you desire from one of those.

Also if you want to match the door fronts with the laminate, do both sides.

Good luck. Kitchens are a great thing to make.

Ps.. Plan it first. you don't want to end up not being able to fit your dishwasher in or something.

 

[alexnharvey]

@COWS I hadn't considered gluing my own laminate to the ply or whatever material I use for the cabinets. I assumed that factory produced laminate faced ply would be glued at high pressure and so would be a better job than gluing at home.

 

[Sachakins]

Worth a look, not kitchen but sounds to you idea

 

[COWS]

@COWS I hadn't considered gluing my own laminate to the ply or whatever material I use for the cabinets. I assumed that factory produced laminate faced ply would be glued at high pressure and so would be a better job than gluing at home.

They are yes but I've done a lot of laminate work in the past. This is the type of glue I used. Its somewhat more expensive than I remember. Prior to using spray glue, I used Evo Stick 528 using a part of a handsaw blade with the teeth worn right down as a spreader. Also used rollers for pressing it out.

However you go about it, I believe you will build a kitchen that will last for as long as you want and probably for less than buying a mid rage showroom one.

edit: spelling

 

[Inspector]

You should look into pre-finished plywood or veneered chipboard/MDF for the carcasses. Many shops use it here because it saves time and the interiors are a nice maple or birch. Biscuits are designed for this kind of work if you have one use it. If not screws (or even brad nails) and glue are simple and will hold well enough until everything is mounted. Better than legs making a plinth as COWS mentioned is nice and solid, although here they are normally 2x4 (90mm high) here. You face the space under the cabinet with the material of your choosing. The beauty of them is that you can level and anchor the whole plinth at one time ensuring the cabinets sit level and it simplifies cabinet construction. Screw them down into the plinth and to the wall. If you are smart you let in plywood along the wall so you have something to screw into without having to look for studs. I think plywood edges don't look all that good and add work to making them nice looking. I would glue solid edging on.

Pete

 

[eribaMotters]

I have recently completed a couple of units in 18mm birch plywood nd MDF. The plywood is now getting difficult to obtain and as mentioned earlier Poplar is the available alternative. I have used Timbmet, minimum order of £500 but free delivery. I paid £88 + vat a sheet a few weeks ago, same as a month earlier for S-BB grade Birch plywood.
The problems you will face is you have to be very accurate and careful in your cutting, construction and finish. I biscuit joint my cabinets together, and fish with two coats of acrylic satin varnish. The MDF I use an acrylic eggshell.
I plant a 33mm thick M&T frame onto the front and then use inset drawers or doors. The frame is painted but the doors/drawers are sometimes varnished as this gives a nice contrast.

Instead of a plinth or plastic legs look at the IKEA Capita legs. I used these in the bookcase and desk units shown.

Colin

 

[sometimewoodworker]

I am wondering if i can use 2400mm long sections to form the tops and bottoms of the units and then have the sides inserted between those, either in dados cut into the long pieces, or fixed by one of the other common methods, dowels or confirmat type screws. As I will not be creating feet for the cabinets by using full height walls I could use plastic legs to support the cabinets and attach them to the walls at the rear, but it is not out of the question to use wooden legs if these would be better.

Is there an obvious reason not to do it this way or is it a reasonable design choice?

there is absolutely no reason not to make them that way. Plastic levelling legs, I used the IKEA ones, are perfectly good. You may well not need full thickness backs, you definitely do not need full width/length pieces on the top. There is a good system for attaching the backs to the wall’s using plastic adjustable spacers.

Your design is almost the same as the one I made for my kitchen, though the length is not as long as yours, it is 1700mm long. I also put in 32mm system shelf pin holes which make fitting draw slides really foolproof using euro screws. I mostly used dominoes, pocket holes and glue.

My kitchen has been in place for 2 years now, it has a granite top so you can certainly that the plastic legs are easily sturdy enough, I used one pair under each vertical.

 

[Lefley]

Track saw and pocket screws is the current plan tool wise. If I can avoid dados it seems like it makes my life much easier.

Have you made your kitchen @Spectric , I saw some of your deliberations in older threads.

they create boxes in euro style is you really need two sheets of ply to put euro hinges for doors back to back . a single sheet in between cabinets can not accommodate euro hinges going both ways, i suppose you could use one sheet between turn put a second strip on front and strips where slides for drawers would go. but that is just more work then building boxes with one bottom and two sides with a strip at top , front and back,

 

[sometimewoodworker]

the reason they create boxes in euro style is you really need two sheets of ply to put euro hinges for doors back to back . a single sheet in between cabinets can not accommodate euro hinges going both ways, i suppose you could use one sheet between turn put a second strip on front and strips where slides for drawers would go. but that is just more work then building boxes with one bottom and two sides with a strip at top , front and back,

That is incorrect information, a single 19mm panel can easily accommodate two back to back doors using euro hinges. There are 4 different ways, one is to use euro screws that protrude 8mm or less into the panel, there are lengths of euro screws from 8mm total length so that’s easy enough. A second is to use 25mm panels, this will allow for the use of 13mm euro screws. A third is to offset the hinges so the screws don’t meet. The last that I can think of is to drill the 32mm system holes using a 16mm offset to each other on different sides of the panel.

So these are at least 4 different ways to do the job you say can’t be done.

FWIW. I have not offset the holes, I have draw slides that use the same holes, I just use 8mm Euro screws

 

[Lefley]

That is incorrect information, a single 19mm panel can easily accommodate two back to back doors using euro hinges. There are 4 different ways, one is to use euro screws that protrude 8mm or less into the panel, there are lengths of euro screws from 8mm total length so that’s easy enough. A second is to use 25mm panels, this will allow for the use of 13mm euro screws. A third is to offset the hinges so the screws don’t meet. The last that I can think of is to drill the 32mm system holes using a 16mm offset to each other on different sides of the panel.

So these are at least 4 different ways to do the job you say can’t be done.

FWIW. I have not offset the holes, I have draw slides that use the same holes, I just use 8mm Euro screws

my mistake i thought he said he was going to be using 1/2 inch panels. we don't use metric sheets in cansda .i converted wrong.

 

[WillyEckerslike]

That is incorrect information, a single 19mm panel can easily accommodate two back to back doors using euro hinges. There are 4 different ways, one is to use euro screws that protrude 8mm or less into the panel, there are lengths of euro screws from 8mm total length so that’s easy enough. A second is to use 25mm panels, this will allow for the use of 13mm euro screws. A third is to offset the hinges so the screws don’t meet. The last that I can think of is to drill the 32mm system holes using a 16mm offset to each other on different sides of the panel.

So these are at least 4 different ways to do the job you say can’t be done.

FWIW. I have not offset the holes, I have draw slides that use the same holes, I just use 8mm Euro screws

Does that work with overlay doors? I can see it wouldn't be a problem with inset hinges

 

[SimonL]

@alexnharvey I have recently started a kitchen almost exactly as you describe above - I am part way through.
I have decided for various reasons to make the cabinets individually (singles or doubles i.e. 600 or 1200 wide) so will get the double uprights in places
I have done some previous jobs in the house which leave the edges exposed (inset doors rather than overlay) and I find when finished they are quite subdued and really nice.
I am using rebates & dado's and mostly just glue - some pocket holes on the back where I've put a stretcher or support to keep everything square.
I've also used the plastic levelling legs which I've used before - work well for me
I'm using a track saw and router
some of my inspiration came from:
Lozi Designs
Birkwood Scotland

I have sketchup files for the cabinet design if helpful.
example pic of the rebate/dado - not sanded or finished at this point;

The right hand cabinet is for the sink and this recess will be filled with a fake drawer front later....