Linseed Putty and Double glazing

[JoeS]

Have a set of double doors that are timber but double glazed. The timber has slightly warped in the sun, and there is now a slight gap between the glazing and the timber. This has caused water to get into the wood and the paint has flaked/failed.

I'd like to refinish them using linseed oil paint (...no let's not start a war on that). Is there any reason why i can't seal over the top of the existing seals with linseed oil putty, and paint the doors like i would have done an old fashioned single glazed door? The linseed putty will act as a gap filler for where the door timber has warped a little...and should seal the doors nicely again?

Any thoughts?

 

[rogxwhit]

Are the gaps you're talking about internal or external? Are the units retained by glazing beads? Got photos?

 

[Bingy man]

How old are the doors/ how long have gaps been present. If external has water already got in and started the process- you could potentially seal in trapped water or moisture in the frame . Just my thoughts

 

[niall Y]

I remember being told not to use linseed oil putty, for D/G units, but to always use the specialist non-setting glazing compounds. Putty sets hard and can cause the units to leak. I don't know if this is the case when the putty is applied to one side only, but probably best to err on the side of caution, rather than 'suck it and see'

 

[JoeS]

The problem has got worse since i last had a look at the doors. Hmmm...not sure what to do now.

 

[JoeS]

Can anyone advise what might be the best thing to do.... the doors are probably 7 years old, but sit in bright sunshine all day. as are south facing. They don't look very well for 7 years!

 

[Jacob]

Don't know about DG and putty.
But I do know that you can paint linseed oil paint direct onto new putty. Also linseed oil paint won't flake off like ordinary paint. It sticks very firmly on but slowly weathers off from the surface instead of flaking and so never forms a moisture trap.
In my experience it seems to stick well on old paint too so there's no need to burn it off first - just remove loose stuff, clean it (sugar soap etc), sand a bit, and perhaps prime bare wood with straight raw linseed oil .
Has to be brushed out thin, you can't layer it on like normal paints.

 

[rogxwhit]

There might be a logistics problem here, in that you may need the doors to remain in situ for weatherproofing / security. But I'd want to have the doors off, even if one at a time, get them on trestles and have a bit of a clean-up, review the state of things and effect a mechanical repair. Finish at this stage is secondary.

 

[Bod]

A slight aside.
Who can handle Putty?
When ever I try, I just end up with a handfull of sticky mess!
Wet hands, dry hands, a lump that has been handled perfectly well by others, all end up as a sticky mess for me.

Bod.

 

[niall Y]

Can anyone advise what might be the best thing to do.... the doors are probably 7 years old, but sit in bright sunshine all day. as are south facing. They don't look very well for 7 years!

Looks like quite a few things are going on here. Obviously the paint has given out, the joints have shrunk back, and it looks, from one of your photos, like a bottom rail that has been glued to make up the wider width, and is now coming apart.

Winter is now fast approaching, but as @rogexwhit has suggested, you need to get the doors off, one at a time. I would take the D/G panels out. I assume from my reading the photos ,that these are fitted from the inside. I would then strip the paint from the outside, before clamping the joints back, and perhaps pinning the tenons.. You can then fill any cracks and gaps with two part filler, and sand the outside

It's then a case of coating with a primer of your choice, before refitting the D/G panels, with an appropriate glazing compound, and fixing each door back in place. I don't envy you, having to apply linseed oil paint at this time of year - but you could always put it off until next summer.

 

[JoeS]

Are the gaps you're talking about internal or external? Are the units retained by glazing beads? Got photos?

Added some images.

 

[rogxwhit]

Thanks Joe, I saw them. Are there wooden glazing beads internally, you just showed the outside I think?

 

[imageel]

Joe - double glazing and linseed oil putty is a disaster waiting to happen - as the putty hardens as it will tension and strain when the glass expands and contracts will likely cause the DG unit's seals to fail prematurely.
Best solution would be to remove the existing glazing bars out, and perhaps replace any that have rotted, remove the existing DG units and clean up the edges to remove any residual putty. Next clean the rebates out till you have a sound and even recess and then apply a coat of acrylic undercoat.
In the meantime check out -
https://www.reddiseals.com/product-category/window-seals/What you want is double sided glazing tape, choose a size that is maybe 2-3mm less than the height of your rebate and of a thickness that will allow the tape to compensate for any defects/warping of the rebates, but remember you need to use tape on the outer joint too - the one abutting the glazing bars.
When the primer has dried, lay the glazing tape into the face of the rebate making sure you leave 2-3mm gap at the top of the rebate, and after removing the protective layer carefully offer the DG unit into the rebate, possible with packers if necessary to achieve an even offset all around the glass.
The tape is incredibly sticky and if you get it wrong you'll likely have to pry the DG unit out and remove and re-apply the tape....
Once in situ press the pane to firmly bed the glass up against the tape/frame. Then repeat with taping the external face and re-fit the glazing bars.
To finish off for a weatherproof finish carefully apply a small bead of high-modulus glazing RTV - colour to suit. This bead should fully fill the void between the top of the glazing tape and the top of the rebate. Do the same for the external rebate.
These pictures may help -

This last one shows the clear glazing RTV I used, from memory the glazing tape I used was 2mm thick, so perhaps the rtv is 5-6mm deep, but whatever, 11y later they are still in pretty good nick -


Ed

 

[JoeS]

I'll take the doors off one at a time and refinish them inside i think. Seems like the best idea. Thanks for all the advice on here. I will probably have more questions once i'm underway. Thanks.

 

[rogxwhit]

glazing bars

A glazing bar is something quite distinct and I haven't seen one here. I think you mean glazing beads?

When it comes to glazing there are several solutions ...

 

[Ollie78]

No, do not use putty. I would use a hybrid polymer like Dryseal, Hodgesons heritage putty, Timbaglaze, even Stixall.

It looks like they have been glazed with a tape. Looking at them I would be inclined to take them out, clean up the rebates, prime them and re fit with a hybrid polymer.

Ollie

 

[imageel]

A glazing bar is something quite distinct and I haven't seen one here. I think you mean glazing beads?

When it comes to glazing there are several solutions ...

Yeah apologies my bad I meant beads, and as others have said, non-setting compounds would work too, I'm just basing my advice on my own practical experience

Ed

 

[deema]

The rail appears to be laminated out of three or four pieces, not sure why, but, the glue seems appear to have failed. This isn’t good news. If the glue seams have failed, moisture will be sucked into the gap, no amount of filler will fix it, as it will keep moving. The doors IMO need to be taken out, and each disassembled and the poor bits replacing and rebuilding. It’s a lot more work than actually making the doors from new. I suspect if you don’t, within a few years the doors will have rotted and you will be replacing with new….again.

 

[HOJ]

Be interesting to see if there any drain holes drilled down through the bottom rail, in the rebate, under the glass, leading to outside, or even, has the bottom inside bead got a gap underneath, which would suggest to me the door was hung the wrong way round. plus, I've never been convinced by just using "glazing tape" and always do a cap & seal solution as @imageel has done, that's If the glass & rebate isn't going to be ventilated, which it can't be if its on the inside.

The rail appears to be laminated out of three or four pieces, not sure why,

Fairly standard practice now, apparently its called "engineered" timber, I've seen it with more than 4 and then facing skins over all of it!!

DG units will have no warranty if bedded with linseed oil putty.

@JoeS sorry to say this but have left it for 7 years, so there is always consequence.

 

[imageel]

Be interesting to see if there any drain holes drilled down through the bottom rail, in the rebate, under the glass, leading to outside, or even, has the bottom inside bead got a gap underneath, which would suggest to me the door was hung the wrong way round. plus, I've never been convinced by just using "glazing tape" and always do a cap & seal solution as @imageel has done, that's If the glass & rebate isn't going to be ventilated, which it can't be if its on the inside.


Fairly standard practice now, apparently its called "engineered" timber, I've seen it with more than 4 and then facing skins over all of it!!

DG units will have no warranty if bedded with linseed oil putty.

@JoeS sorry to say this but have left it for 7 years, so there is always consequence.

I forgot to mention - all those windows are ventilated and have drain holes into the cill's - belt and braces but worth the effort for longevity however AFAIKT none of the cappings' nor tape appeared to have failed thus far...