Lie Neilsen / Veritas plane choices.

[Escudo]

What ho all,

I spent a very enjoyable morning last Saturday with forum member WoodyAlan when I called at his workshop to drool over his wonderful collection of hand tools and receive some much needed instruction.

We chatted about chisels, planes and sharpening techniques and I left much the wiser.

On the drive home I concluded that I should buy some hand tools.

The purpose of this post is to ask members which choices to go for and to seek a wider view point / information. I do not really have a budget, although I do not want to buy tools I will not really use. I hope my choices will cover most woodworking situations / tasks.

Alan had a number of LN and Veritas planes which caught my eye.

After a bit of research this week and a couple of emails with Alan I am mulling over the following models.

Veritas low angle jack.
LN No. 4 OR 4 1/2 smoother.
LN block plane No. 60 1/2 OR 102.
LN 140 skew block / rebate plane.

I have ruled out a large jointer plane and the scrub type plane as I have my P / T for that work.

By way of background - I am a hobby woodworker. I am keen to learn more about woodworking and to improve my skills / techniques. I have some small projects in mind, nothing to elaborate.

In short which four planes would you go for and why?

Do you think my suggestions are balanced? If I was missing something what would it be?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions and advice.

I am away tomorrow and will not return until Friday when I will be able to respond to members thoughts and suggestions.

Cheers, Esc.

 

[MrJay]

I can heartily recommend the Veritas low angle block plane. It's an awesome little tool.

Also, you seem to have forgotten all the tools that aren't planes. And while you're spending all this money on new tools, don't forget you're going to want to sharpen them. I'd also suggest you could start out with less and add to the [ahem]collection[/ahem] later. A block plane and smoother or jack ought to get you started.

 

[Hokie]

I like my L-N Jack BU, but the Veritas one is better suited for a beginner, in my opinion, because the iron is set back farther on the sole - the L-N is farther forward making it tippy at the start. Also, if you joint using a shooting board with a square bevel, you may like the Veritas because you can adjust the iron laterally to square up the blade.

You may still need a smoother, later on (#4 or 4 1/2) I find it easier when I plane to a slight hollow on small stock (the DC way). I like the BU here, too, because you don't have to worry about the frog and it's so easy to remove the blade and hone. Having said all that, I like the traditional planes with frogs for my #4 because it seems to be more balanced. Don't know why.

 

[dchenard]

What ho all,

I spent a very enjoyable morning last Saturday with forum member WoodyAlan when I called at his workshop to drool over his wonderful collection of hand tools and receive some much needed instruction.

We chatted about chisels, planes and sharpening techniques and I left much the wiser.

On the drive home I concluded that I should buy some hand tools.

The purpose of this post is to ask members which choices to go for and to seek a wider view point / information. I do not really have a budget, although I do not want to buy tools I will not really use. I hope my choices will cover most woodworking situations / tasks.

Alan had a number of LN and Veritas planes which caught my eye.

After a bit of research this week and a couple of emails with Alan I am mulling over the following models.

Veritas low angle jack.
LN No. 4 OR 4 1/2 smoother.
LN block plane No. 60 1/2 OR 102.
LN 140 skew block / rebate plane.

I have ruled out a large jointer plane and the scrub type plane as I have my P / T for that work.

By way of background - I am a hobby woodworker. I am keen to learn more about woodworking and to improve my skills / techniques. I have some small projects in mind, nothing to elaborate.

In short which four planes would you go for and why?

Do you think my suggestions are balanced? If I was missing something what would it be?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions and advice.

I am away tomorrow and will not return until Friday when I will be able to respond to members thoughts and suggestions.

Cheers, Esc.

I own three of the planes you mention.

The Veritas Low Angle Jack is an absolutely wonderful plane. The weight and balance are near perfect. And it is so versatile, it can be used as a smoother, a jack (of course), a short jointer, and it can be used for shooting. With a couple extra irons set up for specific tasks, there's precious little that plane can't do. A definite must IMHO.

I tried the LN #4 once, and it felt good in my hands, although the price gives me pause (as for most of LN's offerings). Given that you can smooth with the Veritas LAJ, I would wait on that one, unless you set up your jack for a specific task and don't want to change its setup.

I own the LN 60 1/2. It does the job, and is very highly rated, but somehow I feel isolated from the wood when I use it. I have the Veritas apron plane, and once said that while the Veritas feels like a Lotus Elise, the LN 60 1/2 is more like a Mustang. Similar performance, but the Lotus will let you feel and experience the road a lot more than the other car. If you want to stick with LN, you might want to go for the 102 (which I haven't tried).

I also own the LN 140. I haven't had the opportunity to use it in real-world situations yet, so I will not pass a judgment. I was debating between buying the 60 1/2R or the 140, and the LN rep over here suggested I buy the 140 (I bought the left handed one, even though I'm right-handed, feels more natural to me when using the plane one-handed). I'm not sure I made the right choice, but I can't confirm for now.

Hope that helps,

DC

 

[Philly]

Esc
Ahh......a joyful time! Full speed down the slope :lol:

As Denis mentioned, the LAJ is a great plane. It is also a great smoother so I would heartily recommend this plane - you will love it!
For a block plane the L-N 102 bronze is a real gem. It doesn't have an adjustable mouth like its big brother but it still performs amazingly well. And it will never rust....... :wink:
I would recommend a shoulder plane instead of the skew or rebate block planes. They are both good planes but are rather specialised (IMHO) A good shoulder plane is a very useful precision tool - once you have one you will wonder how you ever managed without it.

Good luck and enjoy!

Philly

 

[woodbloke]

Esc - Don't forget your ski sticks on the slope, sounds like you might need 'em I use the LN block and it's a really cracking little plane. I agree with Philly that a good shoulder plane is an essential - I didn't have one for years and then came up against a job where one was essential. I've just bought the large LN shoulder plane which is a beauty. Can't advise on other bench planes as I use something completely different - Rob

 

[Paul Chapman]

In my experience, the three most useful planes are #7 (even though you have a P/T), #4.5 and a low angle block plane (with adjustable mouth). These three would meet about 90% of your needs. I agree with Rob and Philly that a large shoulder plane would be the next most useful - I don't have one but it's next on my list. It would probably be more useful than the skew block. Can't comment on bevel-up bench planes (except for the block) because I don't have any, but would always recommend the Bedrock-type frog as fitted to LN and Clifton.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Alf]

On the drive home I concluded that I should buy some hand tools.

Someone present WoodyAlan with his Slope Greasing Proficiency badge this minute!

I own three of the planes you mention.

Oh 'eck; I own all but one. But enough of my problems...

In short which four planes would you go for and why?

I wouldn't. I'd get one; you'll learn a good deal more about what you need simply by using and getting familiar with one IMO. It's not hypocrisy, honest; I used to by one plane at a time like a normal person once upon a time. Anyway, if the bug really bites you'll find yourself wanting to use planes for all sorts of things and you'll soon find out what you want to do that you can't, or that'd ideally need a smaller/larger plane. Or maybe that a chisel or a rasp or whatever might be better after all. Et voila, you end up with planes you'll use that are ideal for what you want to do, rather than what we think you might want to do. Not that I think we couldn't get close, but everyone's different.

Anyway, like posters before me, I'd pump for the Veritas Low Angle Jack meself. As pointed out, if you're machining all your stock anyway then it can do excellent duty as a smoother plus it's long enough to joint an edge or two as well. Instead of getting any other planes (just now, that is. Not for ever :roll: :lol: ) make sure you're suitably equipped to keep the iron sharp (essential) and consider David Charlesworth's DVD on planing - although he doesn't dabble in the world of bevel up planes, it will show you what can be done with that size of plane.

Cheers, Alf

 

[ike]

3 on your list I have i.e. jack, smoother and block. I started woodwork with 2 planes - a Stanley No 5 and a 220. I now have the LA jack (marvelous plane), LA smoother and LA block (inc ball tail). Don't have a rebate plane (yet) but also have a very versatile little Clifton 3110.

I'd recommend foremost a jack plane to start and your preferred block plane will also be worthwhile to start off with.

Oh, and the high angle blade option is also handy to drop in if you are going to be planing harder grained woods.

cheers,

Ike

 

[bugbear]

In short which four planes would you go for and why?

I wouldn't. I'd get one;
.
.
.
I'd pump for the Veritas Low Angle Jack meself. As pointed out, if you're machining all your stock anyway then it can do excellent duty as a smoother plus it's long enough to joint an edge or two as well.

Heartily agreed on both points; especially true if you add a high angle blade option.

(and amen on the sharpening kit comment too)

Running a smoother over power-planed stock makes a lovely "brrrrp" noise as you take off the ripple (that you might not even be able to see!).

BugBear

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Hi Esc

I know that this is going to get me into trouble ...

The best dedicated smoother on the market in its price range is the LV BU Smoother. This is not on your short list. It should be. I own this and the LN #4 1/2 and the latter is a superb plane, but it is not (in my experience) as easy to use as the BUS. I get a more consistent performance from the BUS than the #4 1/2.

I would also get the LV LA Jack. It is just such a versatile plane. You will find the LAJ useful as a panel plane, for cleaning up edges of boards (short jointer), and especially on a shooting board (where it is in a class of its own).

I own the LN LA 60 1/2 block plane. It is wonderful, but I agree with Denis' comments (above). It feels chunky in my hand and lacks an intimacy, a "feel", that I seek in a block plane. I much prefer my LN #103, which is the small standard angle version. This is probably the favourite of all my planes. It will cut end grain extremely well, but it is better on face grain than the LA planes (assuming all have a 25 degree bevel).

LN 140 skew block vs rebate block plane? I'd go for the latter, but I am not sure you should go for either. These are specialist planes and perhaps you should get some time with handtools under your belt before purchasing one. I'd rather spend the money on a decent set of chisels.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[promhandicam]

Hi Escudo. I personally would recommend a look at the LV low angle jack - which seems to well liked and as Derek has just said, the LV Bevel-up smoother. The reason I say this is that they both take the same size iron. They both come with 25° irons so you could get a 38° and / or a 50° bevel angle iron which you could use in either. I went down the LV low angle smoother route, which I'm very happy with (except the rust - see recent post), but it uses a smaller iron and so as I now would like to add an LAJ, I will also have to buy additional irons. If you go down the LAJ, BUS slope, you could also add a Bevel-up Jointer - so you have a full set :lol:

I'm sorry that I can't comment on the block plane / rebate planes, however I hope the above helps.

Finally, if you are going to buy a couple of LV planes it might work out cheaper, with the current exchange rate, to fly to New York for the weekend and buy them there!

Steve

 

[dchenard]

Can't comment on bevel-up bench planes (except for the block) because I don't have any, but would always recommend the Bedrock-type frog as fitted to LN and Clifton.

Paul

Rhetorical question, how can you recommend the Bedrock type planes over the BU bench planes, if you can't comment on the latter (does this mean you've never tried them)?

Just curious,

DC

 

[dchenard]

The best dedicated smoother on the market in its price range is the LV BU Smoother. This is not on your short list. It should be. I own this and the LN #4 1/2 and the latter is a superb plane, but it is not (in my experience) as easy to use as the BUS. I get a more consistent performance from the BUS than the #4 1/2.

I know we are getting into the subjective here, but what do you get from the BUS that you don't with a LAJ using the same iron? Not weight (LAJ is a pound heavier), neither balance (the LAJ is quite a bit easier to control as it is less "tippy", easier registration to the work piece), and the price is the same.

The only advantage I can think of for the BUS is its shorter length, allowing one to plane problem areas more easily. Other than that, I can't think of anything else...

Cheers,

DC

 

[paulm]

A lot of recommendations for the LV LAJ and smoother but not for the LN equivalents ?

I am not clear if people are preferring the LA versions over standard versions of the planes more than anything, rather than preferring the LV versions of the LA planes over the LN versions of same, if you see what I mean ! :?

Cheers, Paul.

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Paul notes:

A lot of recommendations for the LV LAJ and smoother but not for the LN equivalents ?

I am not clear if people are preferring the LA versions over standard versions of the planes more than anything, rather than preferring the LV versions of the LA planes over the LN versions of same, if you see what I mean !

It was not my intent to make this a BU vs BD or a LV vs LN contest. I use and like both configurations and both makes. But for this price range in a metal plane then the BU planes rule in my opinion. Of course this is just opinion, and you must take it in the spirit of friendly discussion.

To take the point a step further, and to answer your question, I would argue that LN make the better BD planes and LV make the better BU planes. Therefore, if you decide on the BU configuration, LV is the way to go. Hence the LV BUS, etc.

Then Denis wrote:

but what do you get from the BUS that you don't with a LAJ using the same iron?

I agree that the LA Jack is a plane capable of superior performance as a smoother. But its length can have limitations. The longer the plane, the more it will reduce the thickness of a board when smoothing. A short plane rides the hill and valleys. A long plane removes the hills to get to the valleys. That said, Esc probably would not be as affected as his boards are flattened by a jointer before being planed. Still, I like to dedicate a plane as a smoother, and the LA Jack is too versatile to do this to. In the end it comes down to available finances.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[ydb1md]

I own three of the planes you mention.

Oh 'eck; I own all but one. But enough of my problems...
Cheers, Alf

I happen to own all six -- I think I have a condition.

Were I to make choices given your criteria . . .
As others have said, the LV BUJ is an outstanding, very versatile plane.

For a smoother, I'd actually make the choice between a no3 or a no4. I like my no3 quite a bit for small projects.

I would definitely take the 60-1/2 over the 102 just for the fact that in many situations (for me) the 102 doesn't have the authority (weight) behind it that the 60-1/2 does. I've used the 60-1/2 for shooting miters when installing baseboards, etc. It's a plane that I grab very often. The 102 I use mainly for breaking sharp edges on projects.

I'm constantly on the fence regarding shoulder planes. I had a large LV shoulder and used it but found it too big and bulky so I sold it. Do I have a shoulder plane now? No. Do I need one? Maybe. I trim tenon shoulders w/ my 60-1/2R. Not the ideal tool, but it gets it done. I'm thinking about purchasing the right hand version of the LN 140 to use for shoulders -- I currently own the left hand version for trimming tenon cheeks, etc. I could use the LN 140 righty for a lot more than trimming shoulders whereas a dedicated shoulder plane wouldn't get reached for very often.

 

[Alf]

Paul notes:

A lot of recommendations for the LV LAJ and smoother but not for the LN equivalents ? <snip>

<snippage>To take the point a step further, and to answer your question, I would argue that LN make the better BD planes and LV make the better BU planes. Therefore, if you decide on the BU configuration, LV is the way to go. Hence the LV BUS, etc.

I'll go with that - indeed I already have on a boringly large number of occasions. In fact maybe I should just shut up...

Dave, we think you have a condition too - probably extreme suckage. :lol:

Cheers, Alf

 

[ydb1md]

Paul notes:

A lot of recommendations for the LV LAJ and smoother but not for the LN equivalents ? <snip>

<snippage>To take the point a step further, and to answer your question, I would argue that LN make the better BD planes and LV make the better BU planes. Therefore, if you decide on the BU configuration, LV is the way to go. Hence the LV BUS, etc.

I'll go with that - indeed I already have on a boringly large number of occasions. In fact maybe I should just shut up...

Dave, we think you have a condition too - probably extreme suckage. :lol:

Cheers, Alf

I think that puts me in fine company around here. lol

 

[Philly]

Possibly :lol:
Although you do have a bigger range of suckage...... :wink:
Philly