laminated irons (again)

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I've switched from phone to PC so I can look at the rest of the Haworth catalogue, and judging from the other references on the plane irons page, I think German Steel is right, though I agree it's odd to see it offered so late.

I couldn't remember if it was a meaningful term or a bit of advertising fluff like you get on a saw blade ("Best London" etc) so I have been looking in "Sheffield Steel" by KC Barraclough. (I'm pretty sure this was recommended by CheshireChappie. Nabs, if you've not got a copy, get one; I'm sure you'd enjoy it.)

In there, German Steel is described as an early version of steel, developed in Germany in the seventeenth century, in which a small amount of cast iron is added to molten wrought iron and the mixture held at high temperature. This gives a higher carbon content to the steel. Same as referred to in your RSA Journal.

So, in the 1884 Howarth catalogue, was it a very old fashioned option, or an old name applied to a more modern product? According to Barraclough, Cast Steel (Crucible Steel) took off at the beginning of the nineteenth century and by 1873 100,000 tons a year were being made in the Sheffield region, a tenfold increase in just over thirty years.

It's probably worth adding at this point that production of crucible steel continued, with its expensive, labour and fuel intensive batch production, long after the Bessemer and Open Hearth methods were developed, right up to the middle of the twentieth century. Was it just innate conservatism of the craftsmen who bought the tools, or was it really the ideal compromise between hardness, durability, sharpenability and consistency?
 
Standing on the shoulders of convenient giants, I've had a look at what Simon Barley has to say about grades of steel good enough for sawmaking. Summing up a long detailed section, he writes that by about 1913 it was accepted that the best steel for saws was crucible cast steel; the next level down was German Steel and the next level below that was often described as "Common" and would have been an inferior blister or cementation steel. (BSSM page 7.)
 
it is a fascinating area Andy - much of the 'journal of the arts' discussion on steel relate to various attempts to come up with cheaper alternatives to the eye-wateringly expensive cast steel, and nowhere in the discussion does the idea that cast-steel was signficantly better go seriously challenged. Even Sanderson, qouted above, who had patented inventions to improve the quality of steel converted directly from bar iron was convinced cast was far superior. I will be putting an order in for the steel book!

Interesting point about cementation steel. I read somewherre (the Seaton book?) that it was traditionally the choice for laminated irons before 1830s because until then it was very unreliable to weld cast steel to wrought iron - unfortunately it did not say what was discovered in the 1830s that solved the problem...
 
thanks for the correction about the meaning of 'German Steel' Andy - every time I think I have made a bit of progress in understanding this topic I immediately find something to undo my new found confidence!

You are quite right about the clue being in the usage of the term related to saws: since 'German Steel' was commonly stamped on saws and the same GS abbreviation is used in the Howards catalogue saw section it is surely the case that this is what GS stands for wrt to plane irons and chisels too.

The only apparent anomaly is that in the section on steel for sale the phrase German Steel is written out in full but the description only mentions soft items like cotter pins. However I think this is explained by your other recollection of S Barley's view that the term had two usages in the 19th C - steel made in Germany; and a generic term for Sheffield made steel that was secondary in quality to Cast Steel (commonly blister/cementation steel). Perhaps this is a reference to steel imported from germany specifically for this type of use.

I should have thought to look at BSSM before! These two online contributions from Barley that complement the BSSM content:
http://hus-saws2.wkfinetools.com/z_msRe ... dSaws3.asp

http://www.backsaw.net/forum/index.php? ... #post-4261

thanks again - the scales are gradually falling from my eyes :)

PS the link I provided to the Sanderson paper from 1850s is not helpful in this context I'm afraid as the references to 'german steel' are about manufacturing processes of that country, not the generic term. It is still quite an interesting read, though (if you like that kind of thing!)
 
Just to add to your reading list - the book Simon Barley refers to - The Cutlery Trades by Lloyd - is available at the Internet Archive and looks like it might yield more interesting facts.
You can also read several books by Harry Brearley himself online (though derived from poor microfilm copies and missing important pages). These are unsurprisingly rather technical - but serve as a reminder of the rate of progress in scientific metallurgy which was part of Sheffield's success.

[Edited to correct spelling of Brearley.]
 
Laminated seems the norm on all my old planes and also mortice chisels. Sharpening would be extremely difficult on thick blades if not laminated on to a soft back easy to grind off.
Also found on modern Stanley and Record plane blades. I hadn't realised this until one day I noticed the line visible across a newly ground edge.
Have a modern Japanese laminated blade - you can really feel the difference when you dip the blade on the stone and the work moves from difficult grinding the hard face/edge, to the easier soft back with material being removed much faster.
 
Is it always possible to identify a laminated iron visibly?
I bought my first wooden plane at a flea market recently. The blade is thick, much thicker than in my Stanleys, but it is a treat to sharpen and use. The blade & chip iron were made by Erik Anton Berg and writing on them mentions gold medals won at fairs in Paris in 1900 and Stockholm in 1897. Would this be a laminated iron?
 
Jacob":13u2eqmv said:
Also found on modern Stanley and Record plane blades. I hadn't realised this until one day I noticed the line visible across a newly ground edge.
By modern do you mean current production/sale?

BugBear
 
... modern in the sense of 20th century I think.

they are certainly a boon to people using oil stones to do their grinding/honing, which may explain why they have not been reintroduced with the modern trend for fat special alloy irons (which seem to go hand-in-hand with more extravagant sharpening systems).

Following Andy's comments I have revised my interpretation of the Howarth catalogue and my hunch is that both the plane iron options are are laminated, but you have a choice between the 1st class cast iron bit or a slightly lower quality blister steel option. The reason for my hunch is the sheer quantity of laminated old irons from the 19th C that survive (I have only seen one old solid steel iron and it was a posh parallel iron in an infill - are there many others?)

For chisels the choice is between a solid cast steel or the cheaper blister steel laminated option. Interestingly a Mathieson catalogue from the around the same time has the same plane iron options, but only offers solid cast steel chisels. Why the apparent bias for solid cast steel on chisels but not plane irons? I have two theories (probably wrong!):

1. chisels, unlike slotted plane irons, can potentially be hardened (and thus used) for their full length (remember the Marples ads claiming their chisels held an edge 'right up to the trademark'?
2. frequently used chisel sizes have a comparatively small amount of metal to remove when sharpening so savings from using as soft back are less noticable (possibly mortice chisels are an exception?)

Other views welcome!

PS the other interesting thing about the Mathieson catalogue is the prices for chisels and irons are identical to the prices from Howarth - the explanation (price fixing) had been staring me in the face but I had never noticed it :oops:
7oIBR6gyUxs7xgFBCK1jHpP-0OHVnk9kPShIqvdfqYnaEdTfAeVNZw

(from the Howarth catalogue)

PPS Andy thanks for the suggestions on online reading - I could not find the Barraclough Steel book for < £100!
 
also, all my convoluted reasoning about how to justify GS=German Steel was unnecessary, from the Howarth catalogue:
v-P-SnlbrpfpbsW_Dx8Xg7_vexekdHzbo8GcdYVAWV0aoCIIj0x4pw


doh!
 
nabs":3kz3l7mq said:
PPS Andy thanks for the suggestions on online reading - I could not find the Barraclough Steel book for < £100!

I should have been clearer. KC Barraclough wrote a couple of very scholarly books on steelmaking, which are expensive - I don't have them.

What I do have is a 112 page book, first published in 1976 by Moorland Publications, ISBN 0 90348 531 1 then reprinted without revision by the Sheffield City Museums in 1989, ISBN 0 86321 109 7.

It's a well illustrated history of the trade describing the cementation process, crucible steel, the Bessemer process and open hearth; forging, rolling etc.

You should be able to find copies for under £10 inc postage - Bookfinder.com currently lists over 20, with more at higher prices.
 
bugbear":2w42t7ru said:
Jacob":2w42t7ru said:
Also found on modern Stanley and Record plane blades. I hadn't realised this until one day I noticed the line visible across a newly ground edge.
By modern do you mean current production/sale?

BugBear
Not as far as I know. But I found several on oldish planes so they seem to have been common, if not the norm.
 
thanks for the Barraclough links - my copy is on the way for a very reasonable £6.41 including postage!
 
Jacob":40u95jpd said:
bugbear":40u95jpd said:
Jacob":40u95jpd said:
Also found on modern Stanley and Record plane blades. I hadn't realised this until one day I noticed the line visible across a newly ground edge.
By modern do you mean current production/sale?

BugBear
Not as far as I know. But I found several on oldish planes so they seem to have been common, if not the norm.

Thanks - so by "modern" you meant "oldish". Obvious, now you point it out.

BugBear
 
bugbear":2i5h2t9h said:
Jacob":2i5h2t9h said:
bugbear":2i5h2t9h said:
....
By modern do you mean current production/sale?

BugBear
Not as far as I know. But I found several on oldish planes so they seem to have been common, if not the norm.

Thanks - so by "modern" you meant "oldish". Obvious, now you point it out.

BugBear
You do get confused easily BB!
By modern I meant modern i.e. steel plane type - thin, unlike the thick ones in woodies. There are older and newer 'modern' planes, but I guess that would confuse you even more. :roll:
 
Jacob":28vz6qkr said:
By modern I meant modern i.e. steel plane type - thin, unlike the thick ones in woodies.
So when you said "modern" you meant "Bailey", first patent in 1855. :roll:

BugBear
 
bugbear":1qswrm7x said:
Jacob":1qswrm7x said:
By modern I meant modern i.e. steel plane type - thin, unlike the thick ones in woodies.
So when you said "modern" you meant "Bailey", first patent in 1855. :roll:

BugBear
Yes that's when modern plane design kicked off, thin blade and all.
 
to quote Richard Hammond* of Top Gear fame 'The butterfly counts not months but moments, and has time enough'. I hope these deep thoughts will help you see eye-to-eye on this one.

more fascinating info is pending on 'modern' thin laminated blades - hold on to your hats!
* possible incorrect attribution
 

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