Khan's ULEZ scam >road charging

[Tom K]

The problem comes with that it is a blunt tool and ignores that over 1/2 of particulates from vehicles are from brakes, tyres and the road itself. swapping out a car to one that produces slightly less particulates from the exhaust doesn't have as much an effect as is implied. Combined with the fact that a new car had to be created to take the place of a perfectly working vehicle with all the pollution and energy involved in that. My 12yr old car gets 50+mpg and has a cat and DPF filter but is euro 4 so i would get charged £9 going into Bristol (my nearest ULEZ). My dads car that is 15yrs old petrol that does about 35mpg can go in for free. If I bought a new diesel BMW X5 rolling on 315/35/20's would I actually be producing less particulates, than my older euro 4 car, given the larger tyres and weight? A Tesla model 3 weighs around 1700kgs my car is 1450kg, so is ~250kg lighter when I'm scrubbing my tyres around the city (besides the pollution the tesla is causing from elec generation).

Perhaps a better system would be based on both emission category and weight, as weight is going to have a significant effect on tyre, brake and road surface particulates.

None of the emission standards matter it’s all about road charging.

 

[Agent_zed]

It's easy to find out - just google "where does ULEZ money go" and you get the answer in a flash

"All money received from the ULEZ will be reinvested into improving the transport network and making London’s air cleaner.
The annual T-Charge income is £3.4m. As the T-Charge is combined with the Congestion Charge, TfL cannot separate out the enforcement income generated from non-payment of the T-Charge."

https://www.london.gov.uk/who-we-ar...ey received from the,payment of the T-Charge.

yes those are some words that sound nice but do they actually translate into investment in the bit that the end user needs. How many times have you seen a company get more money and all that happens is they 'have' to get consultants and marketing and couldn't possibly not hire a fabulous CEO on huge wages to run it (who inevitably turns out to not do a lot and leaves after 2 years with a huge payoff). Instead of more buses and trains etc.

Look at the water companies a couple of the CEO's were on millions per year!

 

[Jacob]

yes those are some words that sound nice but do they actually translate into investment in the bit that the end user needs. How many times have you seen a company get more money and all that happens is they 'have' to get consultants and marketing and couldn't possibly not hire a fabulous CEO on huge wages to run it (who inevitably turns out to not do a lot and leaves after 2 years with a huge payoff). Instead of more buses and trains etc.

Look at the water companies a couple of the CEO's were on millions per year!

Yes but we know about the astonishing Thames Water scam and it wasn't just a couple of CEOs it was massive dividends payed out to shareholders and foreign owners while the privatised business went to the wall.
TFL on the other hand is a governmental public body and there is no hint and no way that it could be a scam. There are no profits to cream off. Also it's doing exactly the opposite of Thames Water in that it is trying to improve things for the London area.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans...n (TfL) is,network in London, United Kingdom.

 

[Jacob]

None of the emission standards matter it’s all about road charging.

So you keep saying but it makes no sense at all. If they wanted to road charge they would road charge with no elaborate pretence necessary.

 

[deema]

Just for balance, TFL was and still is completely bankrupt. I find it appalling how much public money has been and continues to be pored into it. I believe it’s £4.5 Billion of public hand outs this year with more promised going forward. The railways are also publicly subsidised, I believe this year it will be circa £11 billion. Now, Im all for public transport, but it has to be priced at a level that it actually both breaks even and pays for its own maintenance and expansion.

 

[deema]

To put those numbers in context, a large teaching hospital costs around £1 billion a year to run. So that an additional 15 hospitals that could be funded rather than paying for peoples transport! We have I believe 21 teaching hospitals at the moment! Now that would have an impact on People’s lives.

 

[Agent_zed]

There are no profits to cream off

well the CEO is on £395k along with 600 other executives on £100k+ seems like a bit of cream to me.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/lon...-bailout-tube-strike-sadiq-khan-b1009359.html
I'm not arguing against the principle of implementing pollution reducing initiatives, just the effectiveness of said initiatives and whether they are actually doing what we are lead to believe.

 

[selectortone]

It must be very reassuring for you guys who actually live there, to have Jacob putting you right on the pros and cons of TFL and ULEZ.

 

[Tom K]

So you keep saying but it makes no sense at all. If they wanted to road charge they would road charge with no elaborate pretence necessary.

It’s the only thing that does make sense Jacob it’s a very expensive hammer to crack a nut?

 

[Tom K]

It must be very reassuring for you guys who actually live there, to have Jacob putting you right on the pros and cons of TFL and ULEZ.

Normal for Mr Grimsdale he always has useful advise on any topic

 

[Jacob]

Normal for Mr Grimsdale he always has useful advise on any topic

No what I do is a cunning trick - I try to find out about things from people who seem to know more about the topic than me! Usually by googling around. See links above.
You ought to try it, instead of just arbitrarily choosing whatever bit of make-believe you prefer.

 

[Jacob]

well the CEO is on £395k along with 600 other executives on £100k+ seems like a bit of cream to me.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/lon...-bailout-tube-strike-sadiq-khan-b1009359.html

Seems a lot to me too but apparently below the going rates for a big organisation top management, and not secret. Also there are no shareholders profit dividends

I'm not arguing against the principle of implementing pollution reducing initiatives, just the effectiveness of said initiatives and whether they are actually doing what we are lead to believe.

Have a search for the evidence then. Start here with "does ULEZ work?"
does ulez work - Google Search

 

[Jacob]

Just for balance, TFL was and still is completely bankrupt. I find it appalling how much public money has been and continues to be pored into it. I believe it’s £4.5 Billion of public hand outs this year with more promised going forward. The railways are also publicly subsidised, I believe this year it will be circa £11 billion. Now, Im all for public transport, but it has to be priced at a level that it actually both breaks even and pays for its own maintenance and expansion.

Public services are not for profit, in terms of money at least. The profit is in the value of the service they provide, which doesn't appear on balance sheets unfortunately.
e.g. The NHS is our biggest financial loser but also one of our most valuable public services. There is absolutely no way for it to break even and pay for its own maintenance and expansion.
This is a very common misunderstanding.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Normal for Mr Grimsdale he always has useful advise on any topic

Bloody good job TFL doesn't sharpen anything. He could be their advisor on paint, though, I suppose.

 

[Tom K]

No what I do is a cunning trick - I try to find out about things from people who seem to know more about the topic than me! Usually by googling around. See links above.
You ought to try it, instead of just arbitrarily choosing whatever bit of make-believe you prefer.

No what you do is talk rubbish on matters you have no knowledge of and then try to insult other viewpoints. This has been your modus operandi from the earliest days of this forum. I believe you have caused more knowledgable posters to leave over the years than any other member.
Still can’t be long now eh?

 

[Tom K]

Bloody good job TFL doesn't sharpen anything. He could be their advisor on paint, though, I suppose.

Those buses want a nice coat of Linseed!

 

[selectortone]

No what I do is a cunning trick - I try to find out about things from people who seem to know more about the topic than me! Usually by googling around.

There is a very wise old proverb: "A little learning is a dangerous thing."

 

[Jacob]

There is a very wise old proverb: "A little learning is a dangerous thing."

Learnt a lot in this thread! I knew sweet f.a. about ULEZ only a few days ago!

 

[Jameshow]

It must be very reassuring for you guys who actually live there, to have Jacob putting you right on the pros and cons of TFL and ULEZ.

He's an expert don't you know!!

 

[Jacob]

No what you do is talk rubbish on matters you have no knowledge of and then try to insult other viewpoints. This has been your modus operandi from the earliest days of this forum. I believe you have caused more knowledgable posters to leave over the years than any other member.
Still can’t be long now eh?

What, are you leaving?
It'll be interesting to hear the outcome of the judicial review but the smart money seems to be on ULEZ carrying on and expanding.