Khan's ULEZ scam >road charging

[Jacob]

No Jacob, inner London the densely populated bit with all the infrastructure did.

So the outer London local government or the government itself approved it. It's called democracy.

I’d happily vote for Lexit though I don’t know what Sadiq is doing for the additional charges on my council tax bill that benefits me

"All money received from the scheme is reinvested into improving London's transport network, such as expanding bus routes in outer London."
https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ul...received from the,bus routes in outer London.You can find these things out for yourself you know, instead of just wittering on about them!
You might be interested to know that the SW and London inner and outer gets much more public money invested in public transport and roads, compared to the rest of the country. It's not fair is it? Moan moan, whinge whinge.

perhaps I need to use my Irish citizenship and go to live with MW

Lucky old you! Go for it if that's what you want. Ask MW first though!

 

[mwinfrance]

No Jacob, inner London the densely populated bit with all the infrastructure did. I’d happily vote for Lexit though I don’t know what Sadiq is doing for the additional charges on my council tax bill that benefits me perhaps I need to use my Irish citizenship and go to live with MW

House is too small and SWMBO would have something to say..I also think we'd argue politics..

 

[Tom K]

The definition of "scam" includes terms such as illegal, sneaky, dishonest, fraudulent, deceptive.

Often used in connection with enabling the flow of money from the "scammed" to the "scammer".

This does not apply to ULEZ. It is clear what the criteria are for a charge to be payable, initiated by a democratically elected mayor, and as far as I am aware the revenue raised will benefit the community.

That one may disagree with the justification used for the scheme, or the criteria applied, does not make it a scam but a matter of opinion. As a democracy it would be entirely possible to vote for an administration (if one exists) committed to its repeal.

Personally I am happy to be a very occasional visitor to London, not a resident - this has much to do with the nature of city living, not motoring surcharges!

According to Mr Khans expensive publicity campaign 9 in 10 vehicles comply so the revenue is coming from 10% of that 10% it’s not made clear if that includes all the non compliant but exempt vehicles. Many of these remaining vehicles will be removed by the normal market forces in a few years or are not extensively used.
So he is installing a massive system to police an ever shrinking pool of revenue the question is why?
Is he genuinely caring and compassionate and believes he will save the retirees in Bromley and Sidcup from terrible lung disease or does he have other motives?

 

[Jacob]

...or does he have other motives?

.......nudge nudge wink wink!
What would they be then?
Is Saddiq Khan just another Michelle Mone?
Will we see him in a tight swim suit on a yacht somewhere in the Aegean?

 

[mwinfrance]

So he is installing a massive system to police an ever shrinking pool of revenue the question is why?
Is he genuinely caring and compassionate and believes he will save the retirees in Bromley and Sidcup from terrible lung disease or does he have other motives?

Has to be said that sounds more like insinuations than genuine questions.

 

[Tom K]

So the outer London local government or the government itself approved it. It's called democracy.

"All money received from the scheme is reinvested into improving London's transport network, such as expanding bus routes in outer London."
https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ul...received from the,bus routes in outer London.You can find these things out for yourself you know, instead of just wittering on about them!
You might be interested to know that the SW and London inner and outer gets much more public money invested in public transport and roads, compared to the rest of the country. It's not fair is it? Moan moan, whinge whinge.



Lucky old you! Go for it if that's what you want. Ask MW first though!

As always Jacob you talk utter rot. His solution to the transport problem a Super loop bus it’s wonderful! Let me explain the concept, it’s the same bus but some of them won’t stop at every stop could cut seconds from journey times. Oh you may need to get a normal bus to the Superloop bus . Oh you may need to get a bus back from the Superloop because they made it faster by not stopping at all the stops I suppose it will increase house prices close to Superloop stops though
Thanks for the heads up about democracy trouble is if you can vote and it can’t change things it doesn’t truly work eh?

 

[Tom K]

Has to be said that sounds more like insinuations than genuine questions.

No it’s fairly obvious that’s why the outer boroughs are taking it to court.
If it was about health you couldn’t pay to pollute.

 

[Tom K]

.......nudge nudge wink wink!
What would they be then?
Is Saddiq Khan just another Michelle Mone?
Will we see him in a tight swim suit on a yacht somewhere in the Aegean?

You wouldn’t want to see him in a swimsuit horrible scrawny little thing not even a cyclist.

 

[Jacob]

...
Thanks for the heads up about democracy trouble is if you can vote and it can’t change things it doesn’t truly work eh?

Same with a plebiscite. There's no guarantee that you will get what you want. Life is tough!
Do you have a better solution?

 

[mwinfrance]

No it’s fairly obvious that’s why the outer boroughs are taking it to court.
If it was about health you couldn’t pay to pollute.

Everywhere you can pay to pollute , health or not.
Some places it's worse, the ones who don't pollute pay for those who do.
Here we have a major problem with farmers polluting the rivers with nitrates..green algal "blooms" each year in rivers and all along the coasts and beaches..Costs farmers nothing..but our water bills ( ours arrived this week ) are 58 % taxes on their pollution, and taxes on the taxes, then VAT on the taxes on the taxes.Actual water consumption on our bill is only 36% of the bill, plus taxes on that, plus VAT on that part. The rest is paying for farmers pollution, they pay nothing.

We still pay only about 30% of what you pay in the UK for metered water ( ours is too ) ..even though ours went up by 32% in the last 6 months.

You have the opportunity to have an Irish passport..get it and move to the EU. Life is cheaper and better here.
Despite the currently rioting yoof in the news. They have a point re the shooting, ( lot of police here are racist ) but most of them ( rioters ) are just chancers using it as an excuse to steal ..and the other dumbasses are burning their own neighbourhoods and their own schools and their neighbours cars.

 

[paulrbarnard]

In my opinion it's amazing to be told that road charging is the solution to having clean air.
At the weekend I was stuck in traffic on the M25 as I often do in the area between the M3 Heathrow airport and the M4 watching all the aircraft taking off that nobody seems to think are a problem.

Of course there is a problem with air travel. That is also heavily taxed.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

The the current ULEZ proposals will affect an ever shrinking pool of vehicles does not render the scheme pointless. By creating the infrastructure the charging net can be expanded and may ultimately may include all vehicles other than EV.

 

[Jameshow]

The the current ULEZ proposals will affect an ever shrinking pool of vehicles does not render the scheme pointless. By creating the infrastructure the charging net can be expanded and may ultimately may include all vehicles other than EV.

I'm thinking that's the ultimate purpose of smart motorways a stealth way to bring in road charging per mile.

 

[Fergie 307]

The the current ULEZ proposals will affect an ever shrinking pool of vehicles does not render the scheme pointless. By creating the infrastructure the charging net can be expanded and may ultimately may include all vehicles other than EV.

I would be more concerned that many older non compliant vehicles may well be owned, and relied upon, by those who cannot readily afford to upgrade them. So my view is that I have no problem with the idea, but it might have been better to defer any extension of the scheme it until the present cost of living issues have eased a bit.

 

[Fergie 307]

I'm thinking that's the ultimate purpose of smart motorways a stealth way to bring in road charging per mile.

So called smart motorways have to be one of the more spectacularly stupid ideas of any government. Refuge areas of your car breaks down? How are you supposed to get to one in the event of a serious failure, broken cam belt for example. The simple answer is you cant, so you end up stranded in the nearside lane, waiting for the next lorry to come along and ram you up the a**e.

 

[Jacob]

....., but it might have been better to defer any extension of the scheme it until the present cost of living issues have eased a bit.

What, never?

 

[Tom K]

The the current ULEZ proposals will affect an ever shrinking pool of vehicles does not render the scheme pointless. By creating the infrastructure the charging net can be expanded and may ultimately may include all vehicles other than EV.

So you are saying expanding the ULEZ isn’t pointless because they will then be all set to introduce pay per mile and price the working class off the road?
Sounds wonderful not ideal if you live or work here though!

 

[Jacob]

So you are saying expanding the ULEZ isn’t pointless because they will then be all set to introduce pay per mile and price the working class off the road?
Sounds wonderful not ideal if you live or work here though!

We already pay per mile through fuel tax.
A well subsidised, cheap and efficient public transport system would better serve most of the less well paid "working class".

 

[Jacob]

As always Jacob you talk utter rot. His solution to the transport problem a Super loop bus it’s wonderful! Let me explain the concept, it’s the same bus but some of them won’t stop at every stop could cut seconds from journey times. Oh you may need to get a normal bus to the Superloop bus . Oh you may need to get a bus back from the Superloop because they made it faster by not stopping at all the stops I suppose it will increase house prices close to Superloop stops though

Sounds a sensible idea and much the same as you get with rail - you can choose between fast with fewer stops or cheaper slower stopping everywhere.
Good in principle but obviously depends on how it is implemented.

Thanks for the heads up about democracy trouble is if you can vote and it can’t change things it doesn’t truly work eh?

Do you have a better suggestion? PR seems to be the most obvious improvement to the current system as supported by the Green party. No panacea though, you could get an unhealthy coalition from the right, the way things are going.

 

[PDW125]

It will have no meaningful effect on health in outer London but it will put in place infrastructure for road charging.

It’s actually called the Road User Charging scheme - it’s not a secret. And if it has the same effect outer as inner, then it will have health benefits

If the money collected isn't going to solve these issues then it could be seen as a scam. I don't know where the money goes though?

Under the legislation that it has been introduced under, it goes toward the operation of TfL and the development of the alternate transport options such as bus, tram, cycle routes etc

It is clear what the criteria are for a charge to be payable, initiated by a democratically elected mayor, and as far as I am aware the revenue raised will benefit the community.

Bear in mind this isn’t Khans scheme - it was Boris and his mates who initially came up with it and Khan just brought forward the implementation of it