Khan's ULEZ scam >road charging

[mwinfrance]

@mwinfrance May I remind you if your recent contribution on a different thread:


Is it just me that sees a dichotomy in your ideology and lifestyle?

No dichotomy..that was "had" ( note the past tense ) ..I'm much older and wiser now ..I was somewhat of a hippy, with a liking for fast motorcycles and cars..also skydiving ..Even had a brief spell in the military..Jumping out of planes with guns etc.. ( just like dad ..only he was a "long timer" ) No longer have the fast motorcycles , nor the fast cars..SWMBO isn't happy about me skydiving, so I stopped..However..she knows that if ever I'm diagnosed with something terminal and non treatable, then I'm buying a wingsuit, and going base jumping in the mountains at least some weekends .

 

[Mel769]

Is this correct? The victorian era ended in 1914 which would make the cabling 109 years old! I had wiring from 1955 in my house which was basically falling to pieces as the outer casing was crumbling.

If the cabling is truely 109years old the argument is not that it can't handle the demand it is surely that it should have been replaced a long time ago for it's own safety. If you have 109 year old wiring in your house you need to have it changed!

Think of all those Victorian houses; and the pitch & paper cable that feeds that house and all the jointing of such along the way. That's what alot of houses still rely on today. While in most cases where it's still in use theres nothing wrong with it, the issues may start when every house in the street is changing their vehicle.

 

[Jacob]

Taking us back to the dark ages, awesome! Life expectancy back to 30 if you’re lucky! No issue with your convictions, just live by them. Stop being an armchair philosopher and actually do what you say. Stop telling everyone else what to do whilst not living by your own perspective; that’s just pure hypocritical.

It's not me telling everybody what to do it's the science telling us what we must ALL do.
There's plenty to do on a personal level what must we do about climate change - Google Search and many are doing what they can.
But the big issue is action on a global level What are the solutions to climate change? | Greenpeace UK and the best thing many of us can do is to argue for change and action by our own governments - through the ballot box where possible, however hopeless this seems.
Also essential is to argue the case wherever we can, as we are doing here. Many people just don't seem to be aware of what is happening to their world and are in denial.
Do a bit of searching, there are hundreds of pages like this: Ten simple ways to act on climate change

 

[Jacob]

@mwinfrance May I remind you if your recent contribution on a different thread:


Is it just me that sees a dichotomy in your ideology and lifestyle?

No you missed the point - @mwinfrance was telling us all himself!

 

[Jacob]

...
I have no issue with any views or ideology.

It seems that you definitely do have issues - you sound very angry. This won't help deal with the urgency of the CC issues.
n.b. "ideology" doesn't come into it

I just ask you to think really carefully what you are asking for ..

Do you imagine people are not thinking carefully? Maybe it's time you started doing it yourself.

....., empty vessels make most noise.

er - pot calling kettle? but don't give up - better out here arguing rather than just closing your mind.

 

[RobinBHM]

At least horse manure is good for the garden

Unfortunately it’s not always.

Aminopyralid, a herbicide can be in horse manure and it can damage plants.

It was removed from sale but has now been reintroduced……so literally an example of how politicians are bad for gardens

 

[RobinBHM]

Politicians seem unable to understand that problems in cities and large towns often don't really affect the rest of the the Country.

Apart from the fact majority of people live in cities

 

[Phil Pascoe]

What's that to do with price of fish?

 

[RobinBHM]

It's not me telling everybody what to do it's the science telling us what we must ALL do.
There's plenty to do on a personal level what must we do about climate change - Google Search and many are doing what they can.
But the big issue is action on a global level What are the solutions to climate change? | Greenpeace UK and the best thing many of us can do is to argue for change and action by our own governments - through the ballot box where possible, however hopeless this seems.
Also essential is to argue the case wherever we can, as we are doing here. Many people just don't seem to be aware of what is happening to their world and are in denial.
Do a bit of searching, there are hundreds of pages like this: Ten simple ways to act on climate change

The arguments on cobalt are a distraction.

Such arguments shouldn’t be used to deflect from the need to make drastic changes to slow and reverse climate change.

if cobalt production uses slaves, the West can throw money at the problem and solve it.

 

[RobinBHM]

What's that to do with price of fish?

seriously?

 

[RobinBHM]

Live by your convictions. It’s simple, stop heating your home, don’t buy anything made from oil, and don’t expect any assistance from anything powered or derived from carbon producing systems.
Human life expectancy will collapse, economically the country will be crippled, billions will starve to death. Apart from that, you will have ‘pure air’ for the limited life expectancy you will have. I’m just calling out the hypocrisy of the preposition.

I want to buy my water from a state owned water company.

But I can’t so I have to buy it from a company that puts shareholders profits above clean rivers.

How should I live by my convictions?

 

[Jacob]

Apart from the fact majority of people live in cities

Overcrowded roads a problem in small towns and villages too. It's dangerous to walk down our village high street. Should be a 10mph limit and zero parking.
We need a Sadiq Khan here too!

 

[Jacob]

.....

if cobalt production uses slaves, the West can throw money at the problem and solve it.

Ha ha, just as they always have done! More likely to throw more slaves at the problem
https://earth.org/cobalt-mining/#:~...lier,serious environmental and social issues.Battery powered EVs perhaps a distraction themselves, just fiddling while Rome burns.

 

[Fitzroy]

We are a world built on the shoulders of history, and the availability of energy. Just about every advance in society has energy at its core, excluding the arts perhaps.

Hydrocarbons are an incredible source of energy, when you ‘charge’ your petrol tank with fuel you are charging at a rate of about 20MW. That is about 100 times faster than the fastest EV ultra fast charger. Hydrocarbons are also relatively safe, diesel is actually quite hard to ignite. Additionally they are very transportable, and storage stable for long periods. They are a the perfect energy source, almost..

Finding hydrocarbons jumped society forwards, bringing prosperity to much of the world, along with war and other geopolitical issues that have killed/hurt many. We would not have advanced as quickly without them, and the surge in life expectancy would not have occurred. These relationships are all well researched and understood, they are hard to argue against.

However, we now understand the environmental impact that increasing levels of carbon dioxide are having on the climate. Just to be clear, the world will be fine with any increase, humans not so much! Failure to act will result in mass deaths, some obvious and visible (floods, hurricanes etc) but the majority much less visible but very clear in the statistics ie, average life expectancy dropping due to lower nutrition levels, stretched healthcare etc.

Our world is addicted to energy and currently to hydrocarbons as the source. To expect anyone who has understood the need to act to divorce themselves from this addiction immediately is unreasonable and unrealistic. No person alive today is responsible for the decisions of the past and the society this has resulted in, we are born into it and have to live within it, we have to heat our homes and feed our families, that does not preclude them from speaking up about it and trying to change it. A man born into slavery is not a hypocrite for trying to abolish slavery, even if he is being fed by the slaves around him, he is trying to free all slaves not just himself.

The world needs to transition from hydrocarbons to other low/zero carbon energy sources. This transition will be difficult, complex, expensive, but essential. For some it will be too slow, and they will be in the streets protesting and changing hearts, minds and policies, thank you to you all for having the passion most of us lack. For others it will be too fast, and they will protest about the immediate impact on their lives, and worry that government policy/focus is missing what is important to them. That’s what freedom of speech and democracy are all about.

 

[Jacob]

We are a world built on the shoulders of history, and the availability of energy. Just about every advance in society has energy at its core,

Only because particular sources of energy were found to be available , which are now destroying us. 200 years of "advance" followed by collapse.
Interesting to think how we might have advanced without coal and oil, after all life was going on quite well previously and we had, and still have, unlimited free energy from the sun.

 

[mwinfrance]

We are a world built on the shoulders of history, and the availability of energy. Just about every advance in society has energy at its core, excluding the arts perhaps.

Hydrocarbons are an incredible source of energy, when you ‘charge’ your petrol tank with fuel you are charging at a rate of about 20MW. That is about 100 times faster than the fastest EV ultra fast charger. Hydrocarbons are also relatively safe, diesel is actually quite hard to ignite. Additionally they are very transportable, and storage stable for long periods. They are a the perfect energy source, almost..

Finding hydrocarbons jumped society forwards, bringing prosperity to much of the world, along with war and other geopolitical issues that have killed/hurt many. We would not have advanced as quickly without them, and the surge in life expectancy would not have occurred. These relationships are all well researched and understood, they are hard to argue against.

However, we now understand the environmental impact that increasing levels of carbon dioxide are having on the climate. Just to be clear, the world will be fine with any increase, humans not so much! Failure to act will result in mass deaths, some obvious and visible (floods, hurricanes etc) but the majority much less visible but very clear in the statistics ie, average life expectancy dropping due to lower nutrition levels, stretched healthcare etc.

Our world is addicted to energy and currently to hydrocarbons as the source. To expect anyone who has understood the need to act to divorce themselves from this addiction immediately is unreasonable and unrealistic. No person alive today is responsible for the decisions of the past and the society this has resulted in, we are born into it and have to live within it, we have to heat our homes and feed our families, that does not preclude them from speaking up about it and trying to change it. A man born into slavery is not a hypocrite for trying to abolish slavery, even if he is being fed by the slaves around him, he is trying to free all slaves not just himself.

The world needs to transition from hydrocarbons to other low/zero carbon energy sources. This transition will be difficult, complex, expensive, but essential. For some it will be too slow, and they will be in the streets protesting and changing hearts, minds and policies, thank you to you all for having the passion most of us lack. For others it will be too fast, and they will protest about the immediate impact on their lives, and worry that government policy/focus is missing what is important to them. That’s what freedom of speech and democracy are all about.

If i could give 5 stars to your post I would. Hey a search in smilies , turns out I can
So ..

 

[deema]

@Fitzroy makes a very compelling argument, one which most I believe will agree with. Taking his analogy about slaves, what we have is individuals pro-porting to want a different way of life, buy doing nothing themselves to live by their values. So taking the slave analogy it’s as though they are slave owners bemoaning the fact that there are slaves and not releasing and giving freedom to their own slaves, a very hypocritical perspective.

I’m all for reducing CO2 and hydrocarbon dependency, but not at any cost. I feel that we should seek a balance, one in which we allow the developing world to have a better standard of living, one in which the less well off in a 1st world countries are not pushed to economic despair, one in which the disabled, elderly and vulnerable are not expected to ride bikes, or live in homes that are cold, damp and covered in mould due to not being able to heat them adequately. I’d like to see all have sufficient food and clean drinking water, proper access to education and freedom of speech and thought.

These things come about by discussing them, through leadership and motivation of the masses. It takes individuals who are able to make a small difference, to insulate their homes, to replace single glazed windows with triple glazing, install heat pumps and solar panels. Now, there are those on this forum like @Sideways to name but one who is making theses changes (check out his thread on solar panels), not because he has to, but because he believes it’s the right thing to do. Examples like this illustrate how to make a change and influence others. This rightly is celebrated and highlighted as good steps forward. I’m a great believer in the mantra of don’t ask of others what you are not prepared to do yourself. So, I actually support the green movement, but find it nauseating to see arm chair protagonists wringing their hands, bemoaning why everyone isn’t doing their bit whilst themselves sit on their hands. Now, I might be doing the bemoaning a disservice, and they may well have made significant green steps to decarbon their life. Something I would love to see as thread we can all learn from. I myself having recently bought a new house and I am in the process of converting it to underfloor heating and heat pumps. A subject of a thread when it’s finished.

 

[mwinfrance]

To call people armchair protagonists because they are not doing everything that you personally think they should ( forego modern medical treatment in my case, or in your opinion I have no right to speak about climate issues, or that I should go back in time and change how I lived 50 years ago in order to not be accused of a dichotomy when I speak now ) is insulting ..to claim that you have not done so..is dishonest..your posts in this thread alone which you have addressed directly to me and others demonstrate that.

We are not "sitting on our hands" ..you are attempting very ineptly to create straw men.

 

[Jacob]

...... Now, I might be doing the bemoaning a disservice,

Yes you are. It's entirely a figment of your fevered imagination.
But in any case the big issue isn't about those who are not doing enough individually, it's about inertia at the government level worldwide, and the power of the fossil fuel lobby.

and they may well have made significant green steps to decarbon their life. Something I would love to see as thread we can all learn from.

Personally have spent a fortune on insulation and managed to achieve a C rating, which is good for a large converted chapel. Also burn all my wood waste including sawdust, for heating. It's piling up at the moment. Like many I generally take note of green alternatives when available, on many fronts. Use a bike a lot, well used to before I had a hip op. and so on.
But the big issue is the political front and about arguing the case here and everywhere, and voting green.

I myself having recently bought a new house and I am in the process of converting it to underfloor heating and heat pumps. A subject of a thread when it’s finished.

Sounds good. Insulation should be top priority.
About 50% of the UK population can't afford to buy a house and of the remainder a large proportion couldn't implement expensive green improvements. So the issue is largely for the state to deal with. But as we know, successive governments have failed to have housing policies of any sort. The least they could do is to impose minimum standards - and the energy rating is a start.

 

[Homeless Squirrel]

Live by your convictions. It’s simple, stop heating your home, don’t buy anything made from oil, and don’t expect any assistance from anything powered or derived from carbon producing systems.
Human life expectancy will collapse, economically the country will be crippled, billions will starve to death. Apart from that, you will have ‘pure air’ for the limited life expectancy you will have. I’m just calling out the hypocrisy of the preposition.

And he'll have to try shuffling up the stairs by himself instead of his Stanner chair lift! plus use Zimmer instead of Buggy to go annoy people in shops/parks!