Khan's ULEZ scam >road charging

[Tom K]

Not so sure about that.

When I cycle down upper and Lower Thames street and along the Embankment in the mornings, most private cars have just the driver in them.

Except you have no idea who they are where they have been or where they are going. Could be a pleb or a banker could be a nurse going to work at St Thomas’ and lives in West Thurrock unfortunately we rarely live where we work or have an ideal solution.

 

[Mel769]

But would it get any better if they encouraged more traffic by removing various constraints?

Yes it would be better. I will give a good example; I done a job a year or so ago for an old boy living in Crystal Palace. He lives(d) on top of a steep hill and the council in their wisdom decided to put a load of plant pots at the top hes road as part of a "low traffic neighbourhood" (ltn) scheme. The problem for him was as hes doctors was a short drive down the hill and back again he could no longer do this short drive due to plant pots. He could walk down the hill; but not back up again; therefore he had to take the long route by car via a one way system; and then back again the same way. Alot of others were doing this also due to their own plant pots blocking their roads. The end result is the traffic along the main roads is about 10 times worse than it ever was before some moron in the council decided it would be a good idea and cut pollution!

 

[Adam W.]

Except you have no idea who they are where they have been or where they are going. Could be a pleb or a banker could be a nurse going to work at St Thomas’ and lives in West Thurrock unfortunately we rarely live where we work or have an ideal solution.

I guess you'll always find some kind of argument to justify driving your car, along with many others. What amuses me though is that they complain about the traffic even though they are the traffic.

 

[Tom K]

I guess you'll always find some kind of argument to justify driving your car, along with many others. What amuses me though is that they complain about the traffic even though they are the traffic.

Happy to use alternatives where viable preference is a motorcycle but it’s not been easy since I broke my back in 2021 and let me tell you navigating public transport is no fun in a chair.

 

[Jacob]

Happy to use alternatives where viable preference is a motorcycle but it’s not been easy since I broke my back in 2021 and let me tell you navigating public transport is no fun in a chair.

Nobody would deny that some have special needs but it doesn't alter the general argument. Ditto with @Mel769's old chap etc

 

[Ozi]

It’s a scam. Thank god we rejected it in Manchester but it’s coming.

Once they have taken our ICE cars away from us, they will put a “slavery tax” on electric cars making them for the rich only.

I find it hilarious that the eco nut jobs think a tiny nation scrapping cars will make a difference when 95% of the world burn garbage and animal dung to cook and keep warm.

How anyone can be fine with having 11kg of cobalt in their car batteries, mined by the hands of children in the worst conditions imaginable is beyond me.

If rising seas are an imminent threat why do all these banking bosses have beach front property in California?
How can you get a 40 year mortgage in London if it will be underwater in 20?

I watched an old witch at the world economic forum basically say, “The commoners don’t understand carbon emissions, we need to focus on water. Everyone knows they need water”.

The “west” is a joke. Thank god BRICS will be taking the lead in the near future.

Local emissions matter, it's possible to detect particulates from vehicles in brain tissue at significantly higher levels from people who live in cities particularly if they live there as children.

 

[Tom K]

Nobody would deny that some have special needs but it doesn't alter the general argument. Ditto with @Mel769's old chap etc

I don’t have special needs I don’t like the way this is and has been implemented. It doesn’t affect me much I am no longer able to work and I have exemption from much of it there are hidden agendas behind all of these decisions.

 

[Mel769]

My take on it is that LTN's were introduced not to cut pollution (because it does just the opposite), but to p*** drivers off so much that they just get rid of their vehicles altogether. And that is really my thoughts on it. At the end of the day thou the only way this is gonna be sorted out is by a reduction in the use of vehicles, somehow.

 

[petermillard]

Not what it says here, and everybody I know who travels in London says it is much less congested. Not surprising really.

Other way round Jacob; you know everybody who travels in London who says it’s less congested! For the record as someone who’s lived in London for ~45 years the traffic’s worse than ever.

I was happy to have a congestion charge for central London, then it became an LEZ covering a wider area, and then my perfectly legal, fully MOTd and emissions-compliant *for everywhere else in the country* van that covered 800 miles a year became a bigger issue than a similar vintage (but - shocker - ULEZ-exempt) black cab who’s engine ran for 10 hours a day.

So I did the ‘right’ thing, stopped using the van (sorry about that local garage and MOT centre, petrol stations, local authorities for parking etc…) stopped doing all that kind of work (sorry about that clients, tax man, VAT Zaman) started a ‘digital’ business, got myself a bus pass, started cycling. And you know what? The traffic’s worse than ever, mostly because of insane cycling schemes and vindictive parking regimes.

Everyone loses; it’s madness.

P

 

[mwinfrance]

Sack o'spuds ( 25kgs ) here is £4.00 ( just bought one yesterday , straight from the farm ) ..also IME witches aren't twitchy, t'ones I know / knew are soooo laid back..all the herbs, spices and shrooms that does it.

When I lived in London ( twice during the 70s ) , I used to regularly walk more or less straight across part of it from Crouch End to Brixton after midnight*, was quiet and peaceful ( You could hear Big Ben strike from Crouch End after midnight ).Brixton was a bit livelier ( all night shops ) and the front line, enjoyed living in both parts, also around Ally Pally.
Apparently it has all changed.

*yes..I was bigger than most of the people out at that time of night...even so..it was quiet.

we have similar here Peter..I cannot take my car to Paris ( don't want to, but that is beside the point ) due to pollution regs ( many other french towns and cities do this also ) ...the thing is ( as confirmed by my mate who owns our local equivalent of an MOT centre ) my car, Renault Clio diesel 96 model ( well looked after and tuned by yours truly ) doesn't pollute much at all, all well within EU regs ( CO2 , NO or particles )..But all the SUVs and modern motors ( non leccy ) that he gets in, pollute far more*.But they are in a different category to mine as they are newer.The "critair" category ( pollution designation of a vehicle, which affects where it is allowed to go ) is not based upon it's outputs..But upon it's year of manufacture. Insane.

Until I can get a leccy vehicle with the ability to tow, I often fell the trees whose wood I use ( rural coastal area of Brittany , seashore ), I'm not changing the Clio.

Neighbour just bought a Dacia Spring leccy.. ( range in summer , no clim ..200kms ) cost around €23K before gov't bonus deduction ( €17K with them, I drove him to pick it up )..Lithium battery model about 45kW. Renault are pushing the gov't here to block Chinese leccy cars ( except Renault's own Dacia Springs,which are all are made in PRC )..PRC car company BYD makes an equivalent to the Dacia Spring, but with way better specs, much better car..and with a far better, less pollution making battery etc, twice the range 450kms..it sells in China for equivalent of €10K..Here it would be €7K with the current discounts and green trade in options..the next model up can tow, it would cost around €10K with the green discounts subventions etc But they BYD ,can't sell them here or the UK..The EU and UK car makers are trying to block the Chinese ( own badged ) leccy cars ( many come from the same factories that make the western badged leccy cars ) any way they can.

*he tells me that using his official measuring equipment ( that is used to pass or fail your MOT here ) that the average diesel made in the last 10 years actually pollutes about 4 times more than my Clio. If I kicked out the gases and particles in the quantities that they do, he'd have to fail my car and imobilise it , because the acceptable figures are based on the year that the vehicle was made. Current model Audi SUV diesel ( other Chelsea tractors are available ) figures are 4 to 5 times higher than mine, but OK because of the year of the car.

The particulate pollution from car tyres rolling is worse ( far nastier elements and compounds ) than that from most engines, leccys weigh more, tyre wear ( and thus particulate pollution ) is much higher.Weight due to current battery types and tech as used on leccy vehicles for the western market.

 

[Jameshow]

They've had to play catchup with the west. Still behind in terms of per capita carbon footprint.
In time they will most likely be the first to wind right back on non sustainable energy.
The west has lost the initiative and should have been investing and developing from a long way back.
Unfortunately our politics is dominated by Climate-Change-Sceptic lunatics and the fossil fuel lobby.

Hardly energy sources have moved quickly to renewables and politics has moved greatly in that green us the buzz word!!

I guess not to a Greenpeace member but to the general public!

 

[Jacob]

Other way round Jacob; you know everybody who travels in London who says it’s less congested! For the record as someone who’s lived in London for ~45 years the traffic’s worse than ever.

I was happy to have a congestion charge for central London, then it became an LEZ covering a wider area, and then my perfectly legal, fully MOTd and emissions-compliant *for everywhere else in the country* van that covered 800 miles a year became a bigger issue than a similar vintage (but - shocker - ULEZ-exempt) black cab who’s engine ran for 10 hours a day.

So I did the ‘right’ thing, stopped using the van (sorry about that local garage and MOT centre, petrol stations, local authorities for parking etc…) stopped doing all that kind of work (sorry about that clients, tax man, VAT Zaman) started a ‘digital’ business, got myself a bus pass, started cycling. And you know what? The traffic’s worse than ever, mostly because of insane cycling schemes and vindictive parking regimes.

Everyone loses; it’s madness.

P

Presumably things would be even worse were it not for the constraints; obviously not severe enough. "Vindictive" parking sounds like a good idea!
It's not because of cycling - it's because of motor vehicles, which is, er, blatantly obvious.
It's the same here but on a different scale of course. Every village street is crammed with parked cars, it's changed dramatically in quite a short time. The school run is a clue - it's only a small village school but there will be 20 to 50 cars lining up twice a day, where 20 years ago there would have been a fraction, 40 years ago probably non at all. Now it is dangerous for kids to walk to school, cycling would be madness.
We need double yellow lines down the whole village both sides and a 10 to 20 mph limit. It's not "vindictive " parking - the age of the private car is coming to an end.

 

[Jameshow]

With respect, it does say at the top of this forum:

General Chat (Off-Topic)​

Post thread
For non-woodworking related topics - yes I know it's a scary thought but there is a life outside woodworking.

Off topic chat for people who like woodwork/metal work... Fify!

 

[Jacob]

Hardly energy sources have moved quickly to renewables and politics has moved greatly in that green us the buzz word!!

"Climate change" are the buzz words. "Woke" is another. People need to wake up.
https://edition.cnn.com/world/cnn-climate

 

[Homeless Squirrel]

Local emissions matter, it's possible to detect particulates from vehicles in brain tissue at significantly higher levels from people who live in cities particularly if they live there as children.

So where would these particles be absorbed from? You're going to say cars! But there is Gas appliances.Wood burners and the Underground and trains

 

[Jake]

Yes I know they existed but there really were no cars on our street when ar worra lad - nobody owned one and there were non parked, except when dropping off etc.

And you got advance warning with the flag bearer too.

 

[Jake]

Other way round Jacob; you know everybody who travels in London who says it’s less congested! For the record as someone who’s lived in London for ~45 years the traffic’s worse than ever.
...

Everyone loses; it’s madness.

You are assuming stasis was the alternate universe absent all these measures when that really is not the case. So the complaint that congestion is terrible despite those measures is really proving the point - the planners were not looking at the 'now' but the future absent intervention. So it seems you want more but also demand less.

 

[Scruples]

Pay per mile.

The more you pollute, the more it costs.

Paying to pollute isn't an answer.

 

[Adam W.]

Paying to pollute isn't an answer.

Of course it is, people should pay heavily for their emissions.

What's the alternative, pollute for free ?

 

[Jacob]

The problem is simply that although it seems reasonable for you to want to go about your business freely in your motor vehicle, you are not alone: everybody else wants to do it too. If there was less road management things would be even more difficult.
One big mistake at the start of the car ownership revolution was to allow free parking. It should have been that all commuting was from off road parking to other off road parking, with no roadside parking at all except for the obvious need to load/unload as you went about your business.
The idea that you should be able to store your vehicle on the public road even when not in use, was unprecedented. Previously the roads were clear, except for moving vehicles in action, stopping only briefly as necessary.