Kell III, perhaps the ultimate honing guide...

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woodbloke

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Anyone who knows me will vouch for the fact that I've been after a single honing guide (note Paul :wink: :lol: ) that will hone almost (pig stickers excepted) anything, simply and easily. The registration is on the reverse side of the brass plate, so setting up is easy. All the honing medium should be used which means that the rollers need to run on the outside of the medium used.
The Kell III is the one that does it all, and after having seen it demonstrated by Matthew a couple of weeks ago, I thought a review of this method (as I've developed it) might be of some interest.
Matthew supplied me with some PSA lapping sheets which after thoroughly cleaning the glass plate are easy to apply. I cut the papers up into 70mm strips so I'm able to get four from a single sheet:

small1-8.jpg


I then made a series of projection boards, very similar to the Eclipse system I was previously using:

small2-7.jpg


and a series of wedges to suit different applications:

small3-7.jpg


Richard Kell supplies an excellent data sheet so it's really easy to sort out the wedges and boards. Making a new wedge for a particular tool is the work of moments, once you know the slope details.
The tool is then offered up to the projection board:

small4-6.jpg


by holding the bar and using the fingers to push the side of the chisel (in this case) against the two registration pins. Once everything is firm:

small5-5.jpg


the appropriate sized wedge is firmly pushed into place, locking the whole thing securely. It then goes onto the lapping papers:

small6-3.jpg


The green 30um is used to make the honed bevel (30deg), and the brown (5um) is used to crate a secondary bevel:

small7-3.jpg


with the final polish being achieve with the yellow brown paper (1um). Note in this shot, I've set the bevel on the LN to 32deg and am using a thinner wedge...this does in fact make using the KIII much easier and I thick is the secret to how it ought to be used successfully.

Awkwardly shaped shoulder plane blades are also easily held, simply by making a parallel shim with a cut out:

small8-2.jpg


as are skewed blades, again with another shaped shim:

small9-2.jpg


Want to do cambered blades?...easy :wink: Set the blade up in the guide to the required projection, and then run one side of the gauge on a double layer of cartridge paper a set number of times, say 6 This has the effect of lifting one side of the guide at a time:

small11-2.jpg


Do this each for each side of the blade in turn, then repeat unfolding the paper, again working a set number of passes on each side:

small12-2.jpg


and continue to work your way down through the grades, repeating each step. Once the desired camber has been established, it's only a matter of tickling the edge using this method with the 5um and 1um papers.

The big disadvantage of this method is that the lapping papers are very fragile...the slightest burr on the honed side bevel will rip the paper in use and the guide must be used on the pull stroke. This presents a problem in removing the burr on the flat side, so I opted not to use the papers but to polish this (the flat side) using the Spyderco 10000g ceramic stone:

small14.jpg


The results speak for themselves:

small10-2.jpg


the LN has been honed dead square and shows up inacuracies in the previous method and the skew is spot on :D

Here's the cambered blade...a crappy old No4 just honed for this demo:

small13.jpg


and although you can't see it, there's the merest whisper of a cambered blade on the edge.

It does take a little bit of getting used to, but once you've got your system organised, the KIII is just about the best honing system that I've ever used...highly recommended :D - Rob
 
Thanks for this Rob. Can you explain a bit more about the wedges? What's that all about?

Edit: Also what are you plans for spokeshave blades?
 
woodbloke":142zwyb4 said:
a single honing guide (note Paul :wink: :lol: )

You might have the best guide but I've probably got the best collection :lol:

Looks good, Rob - look forward to seeing it.

Cheers :wink:

Paul
 
wizer":23c2eeyn said:
Thanks for this Rob. Can you explain a bit more about the wedges? What's that all about?

Edit: Also what are you plans for spokeshave blades?
Tom - making an appropriate wedge is the way to use this guide I think. The wedge ought to be just a bit narrower than the width of the blade being honed, then it's very easy to push the blade against the two registration pins with the left hand and then push in the wedge with the right. If the wedge is far wider, then it becomes very awkward to set up, as I found out when Matthew was showing me how to use it
I've yet to play around with 'shave blades - Rob
 
Hi Rob

If I understand, then the Kell uses the wedges to hold the blade in position? If so, I can imagine that in itself putting a large proportion of Kell's potential market off.

Cheers

Karl
 
Karl":1vzsg3o8 said:
Hi Rob

If I understand, then the Kell uses the wedges to hold the blade in position? If so, I can imagine that in itself putting a large proportion of Kell's potential market off.

Cheers

Karl
Karl - making the wedges is a very simple thing...it takes just a couple of minutes to make a decent wedge and then get if fettled in to fit 'just so' under the bar, it's a lot easier than you might think. The dimensions for the slope for the wedge are given in the handout sheet and it's just a case of working to the info given, dead easy.
It does help though, to have a supply of Indonesian Rosewood offcuts from Weymouth :wink: :lol: - Rob
 
Hi Rob - I think there are those woodwokers out there who wouldn't want to be fussed with having to make wedges - they'll just buy a different jig. I agree it's not difficult, but nonetheless, I believe it will put some folks off.

Cheers

Karl
 
Karl":26cohnz6 said:
Hi Rob - I think there are those woodwokers out there who wouldn't want to be fussed with having to make wedges - they'll just buy a different jig. I agree it's not difficult, but nonetheless, I believe it will put some folks off.

Cheers

Karl
You're probably right Karl...it put me off to begin with :x It's only when I saw the system working and tried if for myself did I realise that it's brilliant. Making the wedges is off-putting for sure, but it ain't difficult.
What you need to be far more careful with is the lapping papers...some discipline is needed to remember that the guide must only be used on the pull stroke - Rob
 
He is right. That is a faff. Making the projection stops was bad enough. I can see that it overcomes the problem with the LV MKII having to tighten the 2 knobs evenly. But it's not much of a solution. So you have to have a wedge for practically every blade you have? oo-er, I think I'll keep the MkII. Much less clutter. Much less faff.

Otherwise, Like the rest of the solution. Will be ordering some papers soon.
 
wizer":2hfo4lk5 said:
He is right. That is a faff. Making the projection stops was bad enough. I can see that it overcomes the problem with the LV MKII having to tighten the 2 knobs evenly. But it's not much of a solution. So you have to have a wedge for practically every blade you have? oo-er, I think I'll keep the MkII. Much less clutter. Much less faff.

Otherwise, Like the rest of the solution. Will be ordering some papers soon.
Tom - no, it's not a faff...those are all the wedges that I've made and they fit all my plane and chisel blades, so that's all the LN chisels from 25 to 3mm, the LN No9 (needs a slightly shorter wedge 'cos of the plate on the back of the iron) the LV BU blades, shoulder plane blades, the blade from 'Big Woodie' and the standard 3mm thick blades from from planes like the LN block.
I've used the Eclipse guide which is good but flawed and the Veritas MkII, which is again, in my view, very clunky and flawed. The Kell is simple, but you do need to see it and use it to see just how good it is - Rob
 
Hi rob

nice system , plain and simple nothing difficult to understand , can't see what all the faff about myself :eek: .hc :wink: :D
 
Tom was asking about 'shave blades...awkward little sods to hold at the best of times. Here's how it's done in the Kell:

kell15.jpg


An acrylic 'L' shaped cut out which has been shot dead square, with the 90deg cut out also being filed dead square. The blade registers against the back of the acrylic and the acrylic itslelf will now register against the two pins. The blade is shown with a smaller one of the faff producing wedges :roll: but a bigger one could equally be used...simples :) Believe it or not, all this 'faff' took about 15 minutes to make - Rob
 
hmm so remind me what's wrong with the MkII? (serious question seeing as I'm considering keeping or selling)
 
wizer":us0ll2cl said:
hmm so remind me what's wrong with the MkII? (serious question seeing as I'm considering keeping or selling)
Tom - this is just my personal view, lots of woodies use one and are happy. For me it's clunky...physically too big. You also need to buy extras to do other things (cambered blades, skewed blades and small blades) but the worst reason for me is that the roller runs on the honing material and there's not really a way round that (you can build a runway behind but this doesn't really solve the problem as the blade edge to roller distance is too small, hence you can't use the full length of the honing medium). The blade registers from the wrong side and it clamps from the top, which logically to me seems wrong. It's a clever idea (even with the projection plate and the little cam affair on the roller to raise the honing angle a smidge) but again, in my view, it's fundamentally flawed - Rob
 
thanks Rob. I understand what your saying. For me, I just use a set of chisels and a couple of planes. It works just fine for me, so I think I'll keep it. Tho very interested to see the Kell sometime. Still going to go down the scary sharp route tho.
 
woodbloke":12udwrnf said:
the worst reason for me is that the roller runs on the honing material and there's not really a way round that (

Oh migod when your sandpaper wears you are going to mess up your bevel [nsert bezel] angles. :shock: 8-[ :(

How many microns tolerance is the backing paper. :?

etc.
 
Jake":uejqmlbg said:
woodbloke":uejqmlbg said:
the worst reason for me is that the roller runs on the honing material and there's not really a way round that (

Oh migod when your sandpaper wears you are going to mess up your bevel [nsert bezel] angles. :shock: 8-[ :(

How many microns tolerance is the backing paper. :?

etc.
I understand the dry hilarity in the comment, but sandpaper it definitely ain't..if you want to polish the mirrors in the Hubble telescope then this might be the stuff you're looking for - Rob
 
Rob - do you know if Matthew has access to adhesive backed abrasive paper in the ranges 200-2000 grit?

Easy to get hold of in the US not here - and I've spoken to the 3M people in the UK
 
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