Keir Starmer

[Blackswanwood]

Starmer has made no explicit promises about how much illegal migration will fall through creation of the Border Security Command, nor a new security agreement with EU. I doubt whether anything will be delivered - words (bu11sh17) speaking louder than actions

You quote the total number of deportations as being 6,000 last year including a large number of Albanians Terry. Take a look at this … 3600 since Labour came to power … and a record number to Nigeria and Ghana.

https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news...r-of-nigerians-and-ghanaians-in-single-flight

I guess as you’ve suspended belief that Labour can get anything right it’s just a case of benefiting from the fine running machine they inherited

I find this thread increasingly weird. Starmer has imho screwed up over the acceptance of gifts (and he’s not my choice of PM) but going on about “we’ve not seen an improvement”, “he’s not told us what exactly will be delivered by when” and “it’s all going to **** in a handcart” etc etc is daft.

 

[selectortone]

I find this thread increasingly weird. Starmer has imho screwed up over the acceptance of gifts (and he’s not my choice of PM) but going on about “we’ve not seen an improvement”, “he’s not told us what exactly will be delivered by when” and “it’s all going to **** in a handcart” etc etc is daft.

Yes, increasingly daft. Let's revisit this in 5 years and see how much has been achieved compared to the complete shambles of the last fourteen.

 

[Lons]

the dead weights on our system are the elderly

Heaven forbid that you ever live long enough to become one then.

 

[Hypnotic Chimera]

I wonder if you could clear something up?

Irrespective of the legalities or otherwise, and given that "Europe" is such a wonderful collection of countries, why are all these asylum seekers struggling so hard to reach the UK?

As you say, they have no money or passport, plus the weather here is rubbish. Surely with the ECHR in place they would be equally as well, or better off, claiming asylum in Italy, France, Germany etc.

Or is there something else going on?

Easy peasy. C'mon, think a bit.

It has NOTHING AT ALL to do with Europe.

You do know that the Brits had a deep and wide history of colonialism, with "connections" at one point in time or another to around 90% of the globe? Right?

You do know that English is a language that transcends international borders? For reasons of colonialism and exceptionalism. You knew this, right?

You do know that Brit "interference" in other countries and cultures has had an incredible amount of influence, and typically that "influence" is net negative.

The potential reasons for asylum seekers to aim to settle in the UK are multiple. Included in these reasons are that they may have family connections here (from colonial past) or English is the only other language that they have ever been exposed to - maybe even decent fluency.

The very fact that the Brits have messed around with most of the world is reason enough for the UK to be pro-asylum, is it not?

 

[woodieallen]

I didnt include Albanians because it was a short term blip for about 3 months

so they arent really relevant, it was a short term problem, it got sorted, they arent coming here now by small boat...........but the right love to keep talking about them despite the fact it was over a year ago

Ah, OK. So until I pointed out your deliberate omission, you were OK to try and use statistics to suit your agenda? Fair enough. At least we know where you're coming from.

 

[Hypnotic Chimera]

And what really gets my goat is people who are so keen to take these foreigners in to our country, we don't know who they are and what there intentions are .if you are so keen how many would like round your house for Christmas dinner. We do not need them,end of.

Ah yes, the "men of fighting age" fallacy.

Meanwhile, a baby has recently drowned in the Channel.

The "men of working age" are the ones who are fit, able, and with the courage to face the challenge of an evidentially dangerous and life threatening Channel crossing in a small boat.

"men of working age" that would benefit the Economy, who are often running away from the requirement to be a fighting age man in a war torn country, which is often war torn only due to connection with past Brit colonialism.

 

[woodieallen]

......

the dead weights on our system are the elderly
......

That is one of the most abhorrent posts made in all the years on this forum.

Another one on the Ignore list for being Pig Ignorant. twit.

 

[Hypnotic Chimera]

When did the war in France actually start, seems to have been kept quiet because that is the country these migrants are fleeing from which is actually a safe haven so they have no need to look at the UK just because they see it as richer pickings and we should be able to just send them back. Our current problem is that we have zero detterents and they all know that the gangs will never be stopped because this government will only use a Ken Dodd tickling stick as a detterent rather than a shot across there bow.


Because of the issues in the UK with housing, Doctors, Dentist and the rest. The system does not need any more stretching beyond breaking point by hanging deadweights on it. If you won a competition and the prize was a choice between twenty cheap and cheerful tools or just one quality tool then you pick the quality as the twenty tools just take up space in your workshop without much use.

Oh dear, you've probably been pointed towards material like this before, let's have some fun with it and do it again...

https://freemovement.org.uk/are-ref...-asylum-in-the-first-safe-country-they-reach/

"Over and over again we hear that refugees should claim asylum in the first safe country the reach. There are variations on the theme. Genuine refugees claim asylum in the first safe country. Refugees should or even must claim asylum in the first safe country. The asylum seekers coming to the UK from France are really economic migrants, not refugees, because they didn’t claim asylum in France.

It is true that almost every asylum seeker who reaches the United Kingdom has travelled through safe countries to get here. We’re a small island situated to the far north of the European continent. Of course almost any refugee who arrives here has traveled through a safe country first. It is impossible for most people to get on a direct flight to the UK to claim asylum without lying to get the necessary visa.

This is one of the most recurrent tropes in refugee discourse"

 

[Spectric]

Just a heads up that this Keir starmer thread has almost run it's course and is not going to come to any worthwhile conclusion because there are too many variables and opinions that are leading to some friction between members and we want to keep things freindly, also maybe some woodworking topics !

 

[Hypnotic Chimera]

I am sorry I dont understand what relevance that has

Some of them want to come to the UK, nothing to do with whether France is a safe country or not

If you dont want them here, why should France take more??



Do you have evidence of that?

this is a common argument, but we are not more generous than other EU countries



all of those issues are caused by decades of domestic politics


the dead weights on our system are the elderly

the people arriving by small boat are mostly fit young men



well the people arriving by small boat are a tiny number compared to the net migration that arrive on a work visa, so you must be referring to them

which of these people arriving with a visa do you think are deadweights?

1) foreign students who pay very heavily for university places

2) nurses who work in the NHS or care sector looking after out elderly

3)manual workers who pick our fruit and veg, deliver our internet purchases, work in meat processing factories or other jobs which British people wont do

4) workers who dont mind the lowish pay and unsocial hours of the hospitality sector


Which of these deadweights dont you want here??

LOL, it's probably another mistaken case of Schrödinger's Migrant.
You know the one - they arrive here to simultaneously steal Brit jobs while also claiming all the benefits (which they can't anyway).

 

[Hypnotic Chimera]

You seem to contradict yourself.

As has been discussed though, you do need to establish if someone is a genuine asylum seeker if you are going to be "supportive of genuine asylum claims".

We do.
Our claims and investigation system substantiates the claimant's claims.
The vast majority (high 80s%) are genuine and are accepted as Refugees.

Sadly, the previous Govt deliberately disinvested the system and deliberately cost the taxpayer a lot of £ due to a build up of a massive backlog and the requirement to house and feed claimants, until their claims could be assessed. The backlog was due solely to the disinvestment and not any increase in the number of claimants.

 

[Noel]

Where's me mod hat...
Ok, the thread can continue for a further day or so on one condition: no more migrant/boats/Albanians/foriners/asylum seekers/the French/safe countries etc chat/debate/discussion/argument.
Anyone not getting the message will be ooot.