Hypnotic Chimera
Directional Consultant Extraordinaire
Correction.
Arriving to claim asylum, no matter by what means, is not illegal.
Your mention of "illegally" - Is this a sign of a personal bias, I wonder?
Keir Starmer
- Thread starter Delaney
- Start date
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Correction.
Arriving to claim asylum, no matter by what means, is not illegal.
Your mention of "illegally" - Is this a sign of a personal bias, I wonder?
Sachakins
The most wasted of days is one without woodwork
The arrival is illegal, until such time as asylum is requested.
Those that arrive and don't claim asylum remain illegal.
Claiming asylum does not make it legal entry. Entry is still illegal.
Once asylum is granted then it all changes ,that I agree.
No it's not personal bias, it's an understanding of the process and it's stages from travelling without permission to a country landing without permission in a country.
Once contact with recognised government authority and then claiming asylum changes their status, up till then they are illegal.
selectortone
Still waking up not dead in the morning
That flies in the face of literally centuries of the most violent conflict and injustice, as has been said most eloquently above. You only need to spend a few weeks in Ireland with Irish people to understand that. It really is a most fragile peace. It's ingrained into the culture and it will take generations for attitudes to change.
RobinBHM
Established Member
I thought we had innocent until proven guilty
but saying "the arrival is illegal until such time as asylum is requested" is guilty until proven innocent
framing them as illegals is deliberate inflammatory language designed to invoke negativity.
the reality is these people cross in small boats with the express purpose of claiming asylum, the refugee convention states anybody can cross a boder by any means to claim asylum.
being an Asylum Seeker is a legal status, there is nothing illegal about the person at that stage...their method of entry cant be considered illegal because asylum seekers are never arrested
RobinBHM
Established Member
to return to Keir Starmer / Labour government...........this constant bickering about how theyve done this, how he had a pair of free glasses or Taylor Swift had a police escort is all just trivial news cycle stuff
The stone cold reality is, it will take at least a couple of years before anybody can judge how Labour are doing....and TBH we really need the full term to judge
In fact to sort out the structural failings of this country, like wealth inequality, low productivity, public services in a state of collapse, poorly skilled workers and a government which isnt drowning in debt............is going to take 10 to 15 years.
But unless the media is regulated and our weak political system is changed, this country will carry on being dung because the public will carry on voting against their best interests.
The stone cold reality is, it will take at least a couple of years before anybody can judge how Labour are doing....and TBH we really need the full term to judge
In fact to sort out the structural failings of this country, like wealth inequality, low productivity, public services in a state of collapse, poorly skilled workers and a government which isnt drowning in debt............is going to take 10 to 15 years.
But unless the media is regulated and our weak political system is changed, this country will carry on being dung because the public will carry on voting against their best interests.
Jameshow
Established Member
Or do ?? % of them run ashore and disappear into the night and the black economy..
They are illegal immigrants seeking economic betterment.
RobinBHM
Established Member
93% claim asylum according to home office figures
https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac....ving in,around three quarters were successful.
are you referring to the potential 7% (see above)
or are you conflating that phrase to stereotype all small boat arrivals?
If it was legal to turn up in a country without any paperwork then why do we have "borders" or passports ? This is no different to entering someones house by walking in via an open backdoor rather than knocking on the front door.
How about walking into a super market picking up an apple and eating it. You have consumed the property of the supermarket. Is that illegal until you pay for it on the way out or only if you fail to pay for it at all?
Terry - Somerset
Established Member
Wrong - Under section 24 (B1) of the Immigration Act 1971, a person who a) requires leave to enter the United Kingdom and, b) knowingly enters the UK without such leave, commits an offence.
Only when you have arrive and claimed asylum do a different set of rules kick in.
RobinBHM
Established Member
you have missed out the crucial phrase: asylum seeker
In 2023 33% of asylum requests were refused. On appeal about a ⅓ of refusals were then granted. That left about 10000 people with refused asylum in the country. Only 4000 of those were subsequently arrested. ~4000 were eventually deported. That means that between 2 and 6000 people arriving in 2023 are still in the U.K. illegally. Yes by that stage it is definitely illegally.
RobinBHM
Established Member
they claim asylum when they arrive
if it makes you happy you can call them illegal for the 5 minutes it takes to get out of the boat and walk to shore and meet the border force agent
although even during that time, they still have the right to cross a border by any means to claim asylum, so they are complying with international law
We all know why the Conservative party and the Daily mail want to ramp up the word "illegal" ............its to incite negativity against them
They are not an asylum seeker until they have requested asylum.
Until they have done that you have no idea if their intent is to do so or to continue with an illegal entry
RobinBHM
Established Member
having your application refused doesnt make you illegal
may I ask why you are rather keen for them to be called "illegal"?
It isn't illegal to seek asylum, because seeking asylum is a legal process. It also isn't illegal to be refused asylum – it just means you haven't been able to meet the very strict criteria to prove your need for protection as a refugee.
https://www.google.com/search?q=if+...3NzcwajFqMTWoAgiwAgE&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
RobinBHM
Established Member
So why arent they arrested as they get off the boat?
A =because the authorities need to establish whether they want to apply for asylum
you are making a non argument
If you read the whole post you would see that I don’t refer to them as illegal at any point. I point out that after they have been refused asylum and failed appeal and not been removed or have not left the country they are illegally residing in the country. Frankly it is you who seems to have the aversion to the word illegal more than ‘Conservatives’ wanting to use it.
Terry - Somerset
Established Member
It is a testament to the stupidity of human beings that having signed an agreement which seeks to resolve a longstanding dispute, they are incapable of looking forward and making it work.
Not just NI, but also evident at the moment in the middle east. Cooperation and dialogue is likely to benefit both parties. Usually attributed to Churchill - "jaw jaw is better than war war".
They do try to arrest the ones who run…. Your rose tinted glasses are effecting your vision.
