I think listening to LBC in the afternoon is a choice.
One can’t blame algorithms for that.
Keir Starmer
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One can’t blame algorithms for that.
"Those who seek power are not worthy of that power" Aristocles [Plato] 375 BC
stuart little
Established Member
So why is 'Comrade' Shyster acting like one!
No. One blames onesself, for listening only to what echoes and confirms one's innate views.
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Jacob
What goes around comes around.
Starmer getting around to a bonfire of the regulations. What an original idea!
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/oct/15/starmer-red-tape-big-business-labour
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/oct/15/starmer-red-tape-big-business-labour
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
If you just mean wealthy economies then you are wrong.
Wealthy USA also has massive levels of poverty. Hence, by any civilised standards, it is a failing economy.
This is typical to varying degrees of many wealthy economies, including UK
Similarly, waving "growth" around as a panacea is nonsense, unless it is accompanied by redistributive measures. Otherwise it just increases the gaps on the wealth scale.
https://www.povertyusa.org/facts
Yorkieguy
Established Member
You seem remarkably incurious about where this largesse which has been accepted, particularly by Starmer from vested interests. The election was touted as a 'watershed' - a new sleaze-free era of ethical and responsible government.
You say:
Do you have specific details?
Accepting glasses, football tickets, clothes, concert tickets doesn’t seem like vested interests to me, who supplied these?
details are important.
You seem remarkably incurious and quick to attempt to defend the indefensible - if you approached this with an open mind, you could do your own research, but I'll give you some background. You seem to think none of this matters, but vested interests, who should be kept at arms length, do it to get the era of ministers to favour the causes which they lobby for.
You also say:
"The right wing media is busy claiming Labour are the same as the Tories.........they aren’t there’s no equivalence. I disagree, the right- wing media are screaming about Labour who followed the rules whilst excuse Tories for breaking the rules. details matter"
It isn't just 'right-wing' media.
I agree that 'details are important, so provide you with the 'details that you seek.
I'll quote two sources - 'Open Democracy' and The Guardian - neither of whom are 'right wing media'.
Firstly, Open Democracy:
'Open Democracy' is an independent international media platform. It produces high-quality journalism which challenges power, inspires change and builds leadership among groups underrepresented in the media. Headquartered in London, it has team members across four continents.
Major national and global media frequently pick up its stories. In 2022 alone they included AFP, Al Jazeera, BBC News, BBC World Service, Channel 4 News, Daily Express, Daily Mail, Daily Mirror, El País, Financial Times, Forbes, Globo, LBC, Metro, People, Perfil, PM (BBC Radio 4), Politics Live (BBC Two), Sky News, The Guardian, The Herald, the 'I', The Independent, The New Statesman, The New York Times, The Observer, The Sun, The Sunday Times, The Telegraph, The Times, The Washington Post, The Week, Univision, UOL and Yahoo! News/Noticias.
This from The Guardian is dated 25 August 2023, 10.52am, when Starmer was the shadow leader:
Quote:
'Starmer has taken more freebies than all Labour leaders since 1997 combined'
Keir Starmer has accepted more free tickets to events such as sports matches, concerts and parties than the combined total of every other Labour leader since records began in 1997, openDemocracy analysis has found.
While the Labour leader spent his first year and a half in the role under lockdown, he has quickly made up for it, accepting gifts from donors including multi-millionaires, gambling giants, the online shopping app GETIR and the construction giant Mulalley & Co on 28 separate occasions. The gifts include days at the races, hospitality at Chelsea and Tottenham Hotspur matches, an Adele gig, and two separate Coldplay concerts. In total, they are worth nearly £30,000.
In his five years as Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn only accepted one such freebie: tickets to Glastonbury, where he spoke on the pyramid stage in 2017. Former Corbyn adviser Andrew Fisher told openDemocracy the Islington North MP had made a point of turning down corporate hospitality. “Politicians at any level shouldn’t be beholden to corporate interests,” he said. “They’re elected to represent the people, and are well paid for it.”
His predecessor, Ed Miliband, only accepted tickets to the London Olympics and Paralympics opening and closing ceremonies, and a number of the contests during the games. Gordon Brown accepted no such gifts during his time as Labour leader and prime minister.
While Tony Blair led a jet-setting lifestyle – including accepting summer holidays with the regional president of Tuscany and in Cliff Richard’s holiday home in the Caribbean – he accepted fewer gifts than Starmer in his whole time as prime minister, and usually donated the value of any such freebies to a relevant charity.
Starmer has also attended two glamorous days at the races, including six tickets with hospitality for Doncaster Races in autumn 2022 worth more than £3,000, thanks to the Arena Racing Company. The race course’s fine dining restaurant offers a package which includes a glass of prosecco on arrival, a “three course plated lunch” and exclusive views of the track for the day.
In June this year, Starmer accepted a “private box for four people at Epsom Downs Racecourse, including catering and admission tickets, total value £3,716”, courtesy of the Jockey Club. Epsom Downs’ VIP experience includes a champagne reception, free bar and a four-course meal, as well as exclusive views of the race track.
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/ke...tenham-hotspur-chelsea-coldplay-adele-google/
I hope we can agree that The Guardian is to Labour what the Daily Mail is to the Tories, and therefore has a left-wing bias.
This article from The Guardian, Wed 23 Aug 2023 18.37 BST shows that Labour are, and have been, mired in this grubby activity just as much as Tories:
Quote:
More than 100 MPs received freebies worth £180,000 this summer [2023]
'Oliver Dowden and Keir Starmer among those who enjoyed free tickets to events including the Chelsea flower show and the Derby'
More than 100 MPs have enjoyed free hospitality to concerts and sporting events worth more than £180,000 this summer, with tickets given away by banks, oil companies, the gambling industry and media firms.
The chancellor, Jeremy Hunt, the deputy prime minister, Oliver Dowden, and the Labour leader, Keir Starmer, are among those who have benefited from a growing trend for politicians accepting giveaways.
Critics said the free tickets could leave MPs open to influence from the companies providing benefits, and questioned whether it was appropriate in a cost of living crisis to be taking thousands of pounds in hospitality not available to ordinary members of the public.
Several ministers have been hosted for nothing by companies. Hunt was taken to the Chelsea flower show by Lloyds Banking Group in a benefit worth more than £600, as well as accepting theatre and opera tickets.
Paul Scully, a science and technology minister, accepted £1,100 worth of tickets to a Billy Joel concert from the Betting and Gaming Council, and Wimbledon hospitality to the tune of £1,560 from the oil and gas company, BP, while Andrew Griffith, a Treasury minister, accepted a £400 ticket to the Ashes and £2,000 of hospitality at Silverstone from his former employer, Sky.
Dowden declared five sets of free tickets including a £1,210 trip to the Chelsea flower show courtesy of Fenchurch Advisory, an investment firm run by Tory donor Malik Karim, as well as trips to Ascot, the Royal Opera House and Formula One.
From Labour, Starmer was given tickets to a Coldplay concert in Manchester worth £698 by a concert promoter, while the Jockey Club gave him a box and hospitality at the Epsom Derby worth £3,716.
Other shadow cabinet ministers to accept free tickets include Wes Streeting, the shadow health secretary, who was given hospitality worth £1,050 at Hay festival courtesy of the broadcaster Sky and £600 worth of tickets to the opera at Glyndebourne by a lobbying and public affairs company, FGS Global.
Tulip Siddiq, a shadow Treasury minister, was taken to the Chelsea flower show by Lloyds Banking Group, with tickets worth £370.
At least 18 MPs were given free tickets to Glastonbury, with five paid for by the tech giant Google, including Laura Trott, a work and pensions minister, and Jonathan Reynolds, the shadow business secretary who took more than £3,000 of hospitality each.
The total of £180,000 of hospitality since late May could be an underestimate. This year a Tory MP, Scott Benton, was filmed by undercover journalists talking of how MPs can get around the hospitality rules by accepting tickets worth just under the £300 limit for declarations.
“You’d be amazed at the number of times I’ve been to races and the ticket comes to £295,” he said, according to a report published by the Times.
An investigation by the Mirror last summer found that MPs accepted tickets to concerts and sporting events worth more than £82,000 in two months. In 2021, MPs accepted free tickets worth more than £100,000 as they took advantage of the government’s Covid pilot scheme for large events.
Accepting hospitality is not against the rules for MPs, provided it is declared within 28 days in the House of Commons register of interest if it totals more than £300.
Under rules brought in at the start of March, MPs can no longer participate in debates or table questions if their actions would directly financially benefit a company that has given them more than £300 of hospitality.
There are different rules governing ministers. If the hospitality is relevant to their jobs, they only have to declare it through the government log of hospitality on a more infrequent basis and without specifying the amount it cost.
Alex Beatty, of Spotlight on Corruption, said: “With the UK in the grip of a cost of living crisis and at a time of declining trust in our politicians, it is both disappointing and concerning to see this sharp increase in the value of hospitality accepted by MPs.
“Hospitality enables private interests with the deepest pockets to access and potentially influence MPs and ministers. This can undermine the quality and integrity of decision-making away from the public interest and towards whichever company forked out for the strawberries and cream.”
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ps-received-freebies-worth-180000-this-summer
“Caesar's wife must be above suspicion” is a Latin phrase that means people in important positions should avoid any appearance of wrongdoing. The phrase is a reminder that appearances matter, and that democracy depends on trust. Starmer has spectacularly failed that test, when he should have been setting an example to his team, not 'normalising' the acceptance of freebies, especially at a time like this, then trying to explain it all away as being 'within the rules'. (By the way, I don't think using the term 'Office Expenses' to disguise buying frocks is in the rule books).
When Labour won the Election with the one-word slogan 'Change' Starmer stated: 'A mandate like this comes with great responsibility. I promise you this: Labour will govern for the whole country. We will put the chaos of the last 14 years behind us, turn the page and start to rebuild. Change begins right here'.
He said 'those with the broadest shoulder's will have to bear the burden'.
First people he targeted were the top 1%, 10% or 50%, but pensioners. Second came Train Drivers, already on £60K. Gave them a pay rise with nothing in return. Working a 4-day week, with weekend covered by voluntary overtime rather than rostered, so if they don't want to work weekend, don't turn up, leading to risk of cancellations. No acceptance of so called 'new technology' - tablets, smartphones, or drones to survey railway line for damage or obstructions instead of having gangs walking the tracks to do safety checks.
If you think this can all be excused away and that MPs aren't influenced by all this lobbying then we'll have to disagree. I'll declare my own 'vested interest'. I voted Labour, and expected better. - not more of the same. Sadly, I think I wasted my vote.
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
Also incurious about the loss of membership funding, which Starmer hopes to make up for by funding from business and financial interests.
In other words a blatant and undemocratic sell-out to the oligarchs.
Under Corbyn the party was very well funded thanks almost entirely to the membership, who have since been driven away in huge numbers.
Bonfire of the regulations currently being considered again by Starmer, possibly just extremely ignorant of recent history.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/oct/15/starmer-red-tape-big-business-labour
Labour - the new conservative party, but leaner and meaner.
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/da...ture-donation-arms-companies-israel-war-gaza/
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sploo
Somewhat extinguished member
I'd be careful with that one; even the Tories are smart enough to know that the NHS is very popular with the British public, so explicit privatisation would be a vote-loser. Largely what's happened is subtle; with parts being quietly sold off (e.g. private companies such as Virgin Healthcare getting awarded large contracts to run parts of the service that were previously done in house). Another tactic has been the slow replacement of full time staff with private contract resource. The water in the pot is being raised in temperature very slowly - so the frog doesn't realise it's being boiled.. until it's too late.
sploo
Somewhat extinguished member
I have to admit I've been disappointed with the news that Starmer et al have been accepting said gifts; not specifically because they're evidence of major corruption - more just naivety.
If you're so inclined, I can understand the attraction of getting the proverbial brown envelope stuffed with cash (it's corrupt, but it's "worth it"). Accepting a few event tickets and the odd bit of clothing however has very little in the way of benefit, but can still easily look as though you're being bought. It more just strikes me as poor judgement - either be fully corrupt and profit from it, or simply refuse to receive any freebies (in order to remove any chance of accusations of impropriety).
AJB Temple
Finely figured
As things keep emerging, we don't know the full extent of the starmer gang's corruption yet. We do know that the train drivers really deserved a huge pay rise and that all pensioners are too rich.
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
Weirdest and most sinister suggestion of the week was Streeting, on injections for the over-weight to get them back into work. Might as well inject hallucinogens at the same time so they enjoy it too!
Very futuristic, like cattle farming to provide workers. What next, a breeding programme?
https://www.theguardian.com/society...s-jabs-to-get-back-to-work-says-wes-streeting
Very futuristic, like cattle farming to provide workers. What next, a breeding programme?
https://www.theguardian.com/society...s-jabs-to-get-back-to-work-says-wes-streeting
Phil Pascoe
Established Member
Underground drivers are going on strike yet again.
I can't dignify that nonsense with a meaningful response,
Lons
Established Member
That's a view I can't agree with.
Well over £100,000 is hardly "a few event tickets and the odd bit of clothing". But of course as Starmer said in interview he "wouldn't be able to take his boy to a football match" otherwise..... Oh poor fella I forgot he's a working man and can't afford to buy his own tickets in contrast to the vast majority of genuine fans who scrimp and save to go to matches. Plus of course he has to bribe his missus with new free clothes as well.
How on earth does the above have "very little benefit"? That's just laughable, how much have you spent on clothes recently and if you received them as gifts as part of your employment/self employment they would be liable to tax.
If it walks and quacks like a duck it's a bl.oo.dy duck.
sploo
Somewhat extinguished member
Fair point - I hadn't realised it's topped £100k in value. The last figures I saw were just a few thousand.
I think of it like this.
If I buy you a pair of glasses (which is weird let’s be honest). The next time I’m walking down the street and you walk passed, I’m obliged to say “hi thanks for the glasses”.
The average person doesn’t get any recognition walking passed on the same street.
And that’s how the grubby world of politics works on the ground level.
I believe paying for access or acknowledgment, is a form of corruption. It shouldn’t be allowed and it’s immoral and many Mp’s agree.
Lons
Established Member
Well over £100,000 and still counting Sploo which puts him in the same league as some of the Tory MPs in my book along with Sturgeon in Scotland.
If you look at Starmer's freebies (as well as other MPs from various parties) the face value is underestimated anyway as if he bought them himself it would be from earned income at the higher rate jaut as we have to do.
I think Lord Ali has a sense of humour though and must dislike Rayner when you see some of the outfits she wears. I've seen better dressed circus clowns.
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
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