Keir Starmer

[Yorkieguy]

So you're not too keen on our government standing up for our workers' legal rights?

'The British government [in 2022] criticised the company's actions and stated that it was looking at the legal ramifications, including whether P&O could be fined, and how other contracts it held with DP World were affected. The legal community was generally critical of P&O for seemingly ignoring UK employment law, and several law firms commented on the likelihood of any crew members' potential employment tribunal claim being successful on a number of grounds.'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P&O_dismissal_controversy

For the avoidance of doubt, whether or not what P&O did was within employment law, I share the widely held view that it was reprehensible, and that whilst I’m sceptical about some aspects of the new worker’s rights, the fact that they will prevent such exploitation in future by any company including DP World can only be a good thing.

However, the message I’m getting is that even though DP World would need to fully comply, its inward investment should be boycotted in perpetuity. I doubt that is the view of Starmer. He can only work with the team he has, and I think he’s got his work cut out in that regard.

My candid opinion is that if DP World think the proposed investment will be profitable, and Starmer can smooth this over, and treats it as a learning opportunity to put his errant underlings on the right track, the deal will go ahead anyway. Maybe will know after tomorrow’s summit?

I just hope they are capable of grasping the fact that being in Government is very different from being in opposition. Mixed messages saying in one breath that they want to work closely with, and work in partnership with business and to see capital investment, then in the next breath slagging them off, is letting down the electorate and letting down Starmer too.

Every day seems to bring yet more missteps which eclipses and nullifies the messages that Starmer is trying to get across. What’s more he doesn’t seem to grasp that if he keeps banging on about what a state the country is in, he’s running the country down, destroying hope and confidence, and making people miserable rather than optimistic.

At the summit tomorrow, there will be 200 senior business leaders present.
For all our sakes, I wish Starmer every success.

 

[Spectric]

Maybe the deal will be to bring the migrants over on their ferries to make the journey safer rather than the rubber inflatables and the French could clear their backlog much faster.

 

[Blackswanwood]

For the avoidance of doubt, whether or not what P&O did was within employment law, I share the widely held view that it was reprehensible, and that whilst I’m sceptical about some aspects of the new worker’s rights, the fact that they will prevent such exploitation in future by any company including DP World can only be a good thing.

However, the message I’m getting is that even though DP World would need to fully comply, its inward investment should be boycotted in perpetuity. I doubt that is the view of Starmer. He can only work with the team he has, and I think he’s got his work cut out in that regard.

My candid opinion is that if DP World think the proposed investment will be profitable, and Starmer can smooth this over, and treats it as a learning opportunity to put his errant underlings on the right track, the deal will go ahead anyway. Maybe will know after tomorrow’s summit?

I just hope they are capable of grasping the fact that being in Government is very different from being in opposition. Mixed messages saying in one breath that they want to work closely with, and work in partnership with business and to see capital investment, then in the next breath slagging them off, is letting down the electorate and letting down Starmer too.

Every day seems to bring yet more missteps which eclipses and nullifies the messages that Starmer is trying to get across. What’s more he doesn’t seem to grasp that if he keeps banging on about what a state the country is in, he’s running the country down, destroying hope and confidence, and making people miserable rather than optimistic.

At the summit tomorrow, there will be 200 senior business leaders present.
For all our sakes, I wish Starmer every success.

The deal is going ahead …

https://news.sky.com/story/po-ferri...calling-for-boycott-of-shipping-firm-13232541

 

[spanner48]

Does the U.K. have high unemployment?

A = no, we have almost full employment.

I am very grateful for all those immigrants coming here and fuelling our economy

Anyway I find immigrants more pleasant than English white chavs that spend their Friday nights fighting.



Imagine this: English chavs talking about how much foreigners have ruined this country while deciding whether to go out for an Indian or a Chinese

I suggest the last two sentences explain the emotional underpinnings to his contorted reasoning . . .

 

[spanner48]

Maybe the deal will be to bring the migrants over on their ferries to make the journey safer rather than the rubber inflatables and the French could clear their backlog much faster.

Why ferries? Nasty, wet, seasick-promoting. Surely flights – First Class, of course!

 

[MikeJhn]

Housing is nearly half the UK price, which in terms of cost of living is the biggest single factor, and also the reason for the mass exodus from UK. Seems like half the people I know have houses in France, or had them - things getting difficult after brexit. Living in France is cheaper.

Well yes they got their ethnic policy wrong by simply denying the issue. Idealistic and well intentioned, but ignoring the reality of their colonial history. Religion is just a detail - post-colonialism is the real issue.

You really do not have any idea of the cost of living in France, its land that is cheap if it has an old building on it, it's still cheap, then you have to spend thousands to make it habitable, new housing bricks and mortar are on par with UK costs, Living in France is NOT cheaper you can just eat and get drunk cheaper, income tax is much higher, tax d'habitation is on par with the UK, tax d'fonciers is only paid by people with second homes, the sneaky way France moved the tax that the EU tried its best to make illegal.

IMO France has got it's ethnic policy just about right by addressing the issue of their colonial history, its that religious detail that is causing the attacks and deaths in the streets/schools of France, they are now going even further by the introduction of school uniforms to prevent segregation.

 

[spanner48]

Not really sure what your point is - unless it is some sort of anti-immigrant, possibly racist slur.

If you look further in the Migration Observatory report you will note that it is predominantly the older generation who at immigration had no or limited English - 39% of those age 50+ compared to less than 7% below the age of 25.

No real surprise granny may not speak English - and may struggle to do so even after living here many years.

The Spanish comparator - from a survey in 2011 (although I doubt much has changed):

A EuroWeekly News article reported that many British expats in Spain speak no more than 10 Spanish words per week. A survey of British migrants in Málaga found that 60% did not speak Spanish well.

Many, possibly most Brits retiring to the sun are retirees and those 50+ who have accumulated sufficient to retire early. If anything they are less adequate than the older UK immigrant.

"Anti-immigrant"? It is a factual report on the numbers reported. It rebuts the point frequently made by the "unlimited immigration" woke, tha immigrants integrate with the local culture.

"Racist slur"? Who mentioned race first? Kindly get off your anti-racist horse.

 

[Scruples]

Some dont seem to understand what London is and its place in history.
Major trading center for at least a thousand years and a total mixing pot of cultures

Someone above cited the demographics of London as being 36%. whatever white British. Though the number of white is 53+% with British Asian being 20.8% and British Black being 13.5% meaning the percentage of British people living in London is about 70%

Now of course the Black and Asian British that make up the London population and are as British as you or I, have decedents from abroad, but they might have arrived here over 100 years ago. And 78% have English as a first language.

I wonder though of the 1/2m that emigrate from the UK every year to places abroad speak the language of their new home. Im guessing person for person its a lot less. Certainly theres tens of thousands of old fogies living in Spain who can't speak Spanish.

At least judging from that program on tv "Bargain Loving British Immigrants In The Sun"

Have you noticed on that program the way they all pretty much live and socialize with other British immigrants ?, even going so far as to shop in places opened up by British immigrants and go to British immigrant owned pubs and eateries.

It seems they just don't want to integrate with their Spanish hosts.

It's lucky for us Brits that we speak the International language then. Those 'old fogies' you mentioned are financially secure and require no aid or benefits from the local economy.

 

[Scruples]

the Conservatives were to blame for the massive economic crisis in 2020

No, they weren't. That's one fallacy too far...

 

[Phil Pascoe]

A headline in the local press -
Cornwall Christmas tree grower is so good it's supplying wreath for the Prime Minister.

I didn't realise he was dead.

 

[RobinBHM]

1: In Africa: 8 years, in 29 out of 52 countries in total. In the Near East: all except Saudi Arabia, UAE, Oman and Yemen. In South Asia: all except Bhutan.
Who were they: broadly, the local people. More specifically: politicians and government officials [uncivil servants].

What particularly horrible things did I personally experience? Don't ask. The list would be too long . . . .

2: Are we in mourning? Yes, for the total absence of commonsense or balance.

It doesn’t mean you are correct.

Your arguments seem largely to be built on cognitive bias not facts

 

[RobinBHM]

Decent employers do not need these rules - they know providing reasonable terms and conditions is a key element of a successful business. They will provide above the legal minimum if it makes good business sense

99% of employers are not decent, they will exploit any weakness in workers rights that they can.

Have a look at America, almost no employment rights….most workers only get 2 weeks holiday, no sick pay, no maternity pay, no redundancy, no unfair dismissal rights

I agree there must be a fair balance between regulations and business freedom

But the idea that we should have small state and low regulations and let the market choose is a false one…..there’s a reason why we have loads of libertarian billionaire funded lobby groups whose agenda is to push govts to cut regulations and taxes to benefit the rich……Liz Truss the IEA puppet spring to mind

America has

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Have a look at America ...
They're obviously doing something right - their annual per capita GDP is $30,000 higher than ours.

 

[Jacob]

Have a look at America ...
They're obviously doing something right - their annual per capita GDP is $30,000 higher than ours.

But 1 in 6 Americans live in poverty.
GDP per capita means nothing if not distributed equitably - they are obviously doing something wrong.
https://atdfourthworld-usa.org/poverty-myths
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_States

Things also not done well here: https://www.theguardian.com/society...s-claimants-with-debts-have-gone-without-food

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Successful economies are not run to suit the poor.

 

[Billy_wizz]

I am not sure what that has to do with the claim the UK has "open borders"

You say the RNLI "welcomes them with open arms" what would you like the RNLI or Border Force to be doing.........pushing them back so they sink and drown, or would you like them to just sink the boats?


I would politely suggest using the phrase "welcome them with open arms" is a logical fallacy known as appeal to extremes:


Australia has pushed back boats: an extremely dangerous practice that can kill people
Australia also sends those it captures to Nauru, place where appalling levels of suffering are happening

Please tell me Spectric, do you support the suffering and trauma inflicted on asylum seekers in Nauru???





NAURU:

"Nearly nine in 10 children brought from offshore processing on Nauru to Australia were suffering physical health conditions, including malnutrition and dental disease, while almost 80% reported one or more mental health symptoms, new research has revealed.

Nearly half – 45% – had reported suicidal ideation, a suicide attempt, or self-harm.


The deleterious impact of conditions in detention on Nauru has been previously revealed as particularly acute on children: by psychiatrists on the island who said conditions were “inherently toxic” and akin to “torture”; by Médecins Sans Frontières who reported mental health on the island was in “crisis” and amongst the worst the organisation had seen anywhere in the world; and through public revelations like the Nauru Files, more than 2,100 incident reports which revealed systemic sexual and physical abuse of children and widespread self-harm and suicide attempts."
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/22/almost-90-of-children-brought-from-nauru-suffered-physical-health-problem-study#:~:text=The deleterious impact of conditions,was in “crisis” and amongst

Who was doing the abusing guards or the people imprisoned there?

 

[RobinBHM]

a fair days pay you deliver a fair days work.

Wages have stagnated since 2010, millions of people now suffer in work food and fuel poverty

U.K. has fallen behind in living standards compared to similar economies like France and Germany.

Something is wrong with the fair days pay

 

[ey_tony]

I was never a fan of leaving ECHR but it's got to the stage where I believe this country should opt out of the ECHR ruling on our court decisions. We are grown up enough to make our own decisions without them telling us what we can and can't do.
This is just another example of why we should wave the ECHR goodbye.....

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/10/11/fatmir-bleta-albania-echr-home-office-right-to-stay/

 

[RobinBHM]

10,000,000 in the last twenty years. Common knowledge, why deny it?

During which time unemployment has fallen

So the economy would’ve been f****d without them

Phil you’ve spent your life voting against your best interests, unless you are a millionaire, then life’s been peachy.

 

[RobinBHM]

I was never a fan of leaving ECHR but it's got to the stage where I believe this country should opt out of the ECHR ruling on our court decisions. We are grown up enough to make our own decisions without them telling us what we can and can't do.
This is just another example of why we should wave the ECHR goodbye.....

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/10/11/fatmir-bleta-albania-echr-home-office-right-to-stay/

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