Just bought a Viceroy TDS6 short bed

[Farmer Giles]

A day of tidying up and a pub lunch however I did get a delivery from turners retreat

it came with the correct thread adapter, I lose a bit of between centres distance but I don't see that as a problem, I have no inclination to start kicking out spindles

The adapter come with a big spanner, and yes, I will remove the spanner before starting up the lathe :lol:

When I bought the lathe I got a small and large faceplate for the left hand oddly sized 9 x 1.25" left hand outboard thread but nothing for the right hand 8 x 1.5" inboard.

So given I was buying a chuck, I thought using that to hold any faceplates etc. would save me from searching for bits to fit the native thread or the adapter's thread. As the chuck comes with 2" jaws and a screw chuck thingamabob, I bought additional 80mm and 120mm faceplates and 1" pin jaws which I think will do me for a while.

Cheers
Andy

 

[graduate_owner]

It's the left hand faceplates that are the problem if they are missing - as you said the thread is 1 1/4" x 9 left hand which I have not come across before. The right hand is the same as boxford and some other metal lathes, and availability from Chronos. So you were lucky there. Mine came without left hand faceplates and I ended up buying some taps and cutting a thread in some maple so screw on. I only need it for a sanding table at the moment so no problems there.

Be careful when unscrewing the tailstock quill. If I unscrew mine into the body of the casting then it turns and sort of locks up until I get it back into alignment again. I keep a brass rod ready for centre removal, and yes, both centres are 3MT.

K

 

[Farmer Giles]

The spark has just left, I had one wire out of place due to the Denford diagram having an omission and having no contactor diagram, I kind of suspected as much but the contactor coil is 400v so although it tried to pull the coil in, 240v isn't enough. If you give the coil core a push it works. So I've ordered a 240v contactor off the bay of thieves along with a new contactor overload protector sized for up to a 2hp motor, the one it at the moment is probably 1hp from the pictures of the plate we have got by sticking a camera around the back.

I've stuck to Danfoss as the size seems similar to the 1970s version so it will probably fit in the back of the lathe in the original container, if not I'll stick it in another box. I could have bought a whole starter in a box for similar or less price but it would be a no-name far east import with dodgy instructions.

It is recommended that you screw the lathe down, especially of balance blanks, the trouble with that is that the fixing holes are internal so you have to take the motor out to do it. I may weld some tabs on the base.

Cheers
Andy

 

[graduate_owner]

If the lathe is a little too low down for your height ( spindle at elbow height) then you can raise it up and secure to the floor in one procedure. Get some U section steel, or box section and cut a section out wide enough to turn a spanner. Drill holes in the steel to match the Viceroy base, and bolt the lathe to the steel, using the cut outs to give access if you use box section. Then bolt the steel to the floor. If you first chamfer the steel and pre drill, then it is a straightforward job. I have just recently done this with my graduate which also has the bolt holes on the inside of the casting. With the viceroy, someone has already welded brackets for feet on the outside. actually it came with hefty 4" wheels but I don't think wheels and lathes go well together, so off they came. Just need to move it to it's permanent position in the shed now and I'll be bolting it down. Because of the external brackets I will just position it on some 6x2 timber, screw in place and screw the timber to the floor. Coach screws will do the job.

K

 

[Farmer Giles]

Thanks GO, I never thought about height, I was too focused on getting it fixed

I have some 50mm box in stock ready to make a stand for my big fly press, I bought plenty so will be enough for a stand for the lathe.

Cheers
Andy

 

[graduate_owner]

Hi again Farmer Giles,
(Do you really run a farm?).

The viceroy cabinet is sheet steel, as you are no doubt aware, so you could easily weld on or bolt on angle iron off cuts to act as angle brackets. The graduate is a casting so welding wasn't an option for me, but the box section steel made it a fairly straightforward job. To get the holes at the correct spacing I poked a felt pen through them to leave ink marks on the floor, then dragged the lathe to one side and used the marks on the floor as a sort of template. The box section actually matched up first time - quite an achievement for me !!.

Sounds like you are almost ready to start turning. Enjoy.

K

 

[Farmer Giles]

Thanks GO

The fabrication part of it is easy, finding the time is the problem

We have a small holding, we did have pigs and chickens but stopped when the kids came along, we are restarting next year when we will get pigs, chickens and probably some ducks and geese. We grow veggies using permaculture methods, basically no digging and lots of companion planting, mainly my better halves concern.

However Farmer Giles also rhyming slang for hemorrhoids and my father was a martyr to them, so it seemed to fit nicely, sort of!

Cheers
Andy

 

[graduate_owner]

Time - yes that is the limiting factor for me too. We live on a smallholding but no longer keep any stock. We used to have riding horses, and Dexter cattle, but all have gone now. Even the chickens haven't been replaced since Mr Fox paid us a few visits. We just have 2 dogs now. As far as gardening goes, well that never seems to get proper attention either. Most of my time is taken up with general maintenance and completing the work converting barn to house ( been on-going for over 20 years). I thought that retirement would enable me to get things done at a fairly rapid pace but everything seems to take that much longer these days.

Never mind, I just keep at it, and I do some turning when I get a chance too.

K

 

[Farmer Giles]

The bits arrived for the contactor and thermal overload, wired it up, off it went lovely, then stopped after a minute or so. It turns out the supplier sent the right thermal overload box but the contents were for a lower rating, correct one now on its way!

Been busy on the roubo bench and still tidying the workshop, chisels arrived, very nice, as have some bits from Chronos. Various bowl and spindle blanks and tubs of wax and cellulose sealer on their way.

Given I have never turned wood in anger before, and I have a healthy respect for large lumps of wood rotating at high speed, I will get somebody around who has done it the first time I fire it up. I may put a two or three day turning course on my Christmas list, the ones at Turners Retreat sound OK.

Cheers
Andy

 

[Farmer Giles]

Well the lathe is making a struggle of it but it is now wired up. We had an intermittent fault that turned out to be a faulty crimp on the motor cable but the correct overload is now fitted so it is now working as originally designed.

To get to the motor cabling to sort out the fault, the end of the motor you need to inspect is buried inside the steel box and can't be accessed without moving the motor. Instead of unbolting the motor which is a faff, I unbolted the cast iron base with motor attached from the steel body of the lathe and turned the body around by 90 degrees so the cabling end of the motor was sitting poking out of the belt changing door. This saved me from disconnecting cabling etc.

While I was at it I took a picture of the motor plate, before it was around the back and there wasn't much room to take a pic. I'm just looking at the pic and unfortunately the motor is only 1/4hp which I don't think will be enough.

So I will get a 1.5 or 2hp 3 phase motor and an inverter at some point so I have more flexibility speed wise with less belt changing. But it will do for now, physically it looked a lot larger than 1/4 hp, more like 3/4. I will still use the contactor, just rewire it for 3 phase and use it on the output, this will work fine as the contactor is 240v and wiring the motor to delta and using and inverter means the output will be 240v.

When I change the motor I will give the lathe a coat of paint and other cosmetic fixes, for now I will use as is,

Cheers
Andy

 

[Farmer Giles]

Having slept on this and after looking on the new contactor/overload specifications and what other turners use I am going to forget the VFD option, at least for now, and get a 1hp single phase motor. Manual speed changes are easy enough on the Viceroy and for my limited use spending best part of 300 quid on a larger 3 phase motor and VFD will make a cheap lathe into and expensive one.

I can get a new 1hp single phase motor for 90 quid delivered, the foot bolt spacing and shaft size will differ but that's easy enough to sort. The contactor handles 6A and full load current on the 1hp motor is 5.3A so no further cost there.

 

[minilathe22]

You could always look out for the variable drive as and when you see a good deal. Same with the 3 phase motor. I managed to find a vfd for £53 delivered on ebay. Are you sure the existing motor is only 1/4 HP? I am surprised a previous owner would have fitted one that small. Have you tried any wood turning with the existing motor?

 

[Farmer Giles]

Hi Mini

Yes, definitely 1/4hp, we were surprised too as its a big lump. We did get a very bad photo of the plate on an iphone and we thought it said 3/4hp and I guess we went along with it, it wasn't until I had to unbolt the base and managed to get a decent camera in there that I found out for definite.

I may still go for the 90 quid motor options for now, a 1hp 1400rpm motor will always come in handy if I do use the lathe frequently. Typically you need a bigger motor with a VFD to get power at lower rpm to give flexibility, for example, typical power output of a 2hp 1420rpm motor at different frequencies hence rpm.

For Variable Speed use:-
Part Time Output when Inverter powered is...
5.04Nm - 1.5kW ( 2HP) x 2840 RPM at 100 Hz
10.09Nm - 1.5kW ( 2HP) x 1420 RPM at 50 Hz
10.09Nm -0.75kW ( 1HP) x 710 RPM at 25 Hz
10.09Nm - 0.15kW (0.2HP) x 142 RPM at 5 Hz
Continuous Output when Inverter powered is...
7.2Nm -1.5kW ( 2HP) x 1988 RPM at 70 Hz
10.09Nm -1.5kW ( 2HP) x 1420 RPM at 50 Hz
8.58Nm - 0.64kW ( 0.85HP) x 710 RPM at 25 Hz
5.05Nm - 0.08kW (0.1HP) x 142 RPM at 5 Hz

Even so, a 2hp 3 phase motor is a similar price to a 1hp single phase motor

Decisions decisions

Cheers
Andy

 

[minilathe22]

That is a shame. Must have been what someone had lying around to get it going! I currently have a 3/4HP motor and find it gets overpowered when bowl turning.

 

[Farmer Giles]

Just been looking at motor sizes, 4 pole 1450 rpm 2hp 3 phase motors tend to be a 90 frame size which would be a squeeze in the lathe, probably meaning a cut out in the side for the motor fan. 80 frame size look to fit nicely without which is what the 1hp single phase motor I was looking at is.

I'll take a look around and make a decision later.

Cheers
Andy

 

[Farmer Giles]

I spent most of the day clearing up after storm Brian, no major damage, just loads of gravel washed into all the drains. However I did get an hour later on.

Firstly, I am going to struggle getting a motor greater than 3/4hp into the lathe without modifications. I have 270mm from pulley to the far right of the motor cupboard, 80 frame motors which typically cover 1 and 1.5hp 4 pole single and 3 phase are typically 290mm including shaft of 40mm long so 250mm body. So that gives me 20mm for distance between motor body and first pulley and to allow for ventilation. Given there is a fan at one end, it will need more than this. Some viceroys are in bigger enclosures, I'm not too sure if this was a later version or the smaller enclosure was for schools only as they were limited to 3/4hp.

There are several options to fix it. First option, add some ventilation into the side of the cabinet. Second, use an inverter and 3 phase motor and have fewer pulleys so it can be moved further to the left with the VFD to fill the speed gaps. Third option, find an old motor that has no fan at the end, assuming dimensions are suitable. Fourth option, settle for a 71 frame and 3/4hp max and gain an extra 45mm for ventilation. I shall yank the old motor out first and have a think.

I thought I would check out a few things on the lathe if I am going to spend more cash on it, firstly headstock and tailstock alignment. The tailstock was in need of a bit of TLC. Rusty and therefore stiff to operate.

Firstly I took an MT3 reamer to the tailstock and headstock tapers to clear out any corrosion and burrs. I didn't use a wrench and I had no intention of cutting a new taper, hand pressure only.

I then cleaned up the tailstock a little and checked alignment with the headstock. This was just a quick check without a test bar but it looks close enough for now.

The clamp screw is missing as you can see, so I got sidetracked onto getting some, plus the other knobs and clamps that are missing. I will have to make some bits but I got most of the clamps and knobs from Cotel moldings, they have some in imperial sizes, they have a 25 quid minimum charge but I needed knobs for a couple of other machines. I bought metric where I will be making a new T bar etc. and imperial where I was using existing threads. This was because metric are a bit cheaper, more choice in size/type and my metric taps and dies are labelled, whereas imperial are all jumbled up and need sorting.

I only had a few minutes of tinkering time left so I took the cup brush to the lathe beds. Before

and after a coat of lubricating wax.

I started removing the dodgy old sticker and ordered some light blue hammered paint so I guess I am sticking with it and it will get almost a full restoration. I don't like hammered paint as a rule, but I thought I would give it a go, I think I hate it as I have seen so many machines where it has looked like it has been applied with broken bottle, covering rust, grease etc. along the way.

Cheers
Andy

 

[CHJ]

Somewhere in your text you mention using your contactors on the OUTPUT of a VFD if you get a 3PH motor.

So I will get a 1.5 or 2hp 3 phase motor and an inverter at some point so I have more flexibility speed wise with less belt changing. But it will do for now, physically it looked a lot larger than 1/4 hp, more like 3/4. I will still use the contactor, just rewire it for 3 phase and use it on the output, this will work fine as the contactor is 240v and wiring the motor to delta and using and inverter means the output will be 240v.

You must never switch the output of a electronic VFD to a motor, the connections must be permanently connected to the motor wiring. The motor windings form part of the operating circuit, uneven or interrupted output phase loads could wreck the invertor.

Only switch the input to an electronic VFD invertor, not the output.

 

[Farmer Giles]

Good point CHJ.

I can use the contactor on the input, even easier to wire up but with a VFD the contactor is kind of superfluous unless I use it for the emergency stop etc.

As I only want the lathe to knock up the odd bit of turnery, I'm erring towards just sticking in a 3/4hp single phase motor in it, I can always go bigger variable in future if I like it, otherwise it is money sat doing nothing.

 

[minilathe22]

In my opinion the biggest advantage of the VFD is when starting larger diameter work that is out of balance, allowing you to start at a very slow speed. If you want to do mostly spindle work, I don't think the VFD would have as much value.

 

[Farmer Giles]

I'm now struggling to get a 71 frame 3/4hp single phase 4 pole motor.

Here's a quote from lathes.co.uk

"Viceroy wood lathes were especially popular with educational establishments who, as a further safety precaution, often specified a motor less powerful than the 0.75 h.p. 3-phase unit recommended for commercial use. If you buy one of these lathes for home use (their compact dimensions in relation to their strength make them particularly popular in this role) and convert it to single-phase operation a 1 h.p. motor will be found adequate for most home workshops."

I can get a 3/4hp 3 phase 4 pole in a 71 frame so that may be the way to go, which would mean a VFD.

A mentioned before, many have bigger cabinets, maybe this is a school special and because it had the smaller motor it had a smaller cabinet.

I've never pontificated over a motor purchase as long as this before