James Panton Warranted Aberdeen Plane advice please

[okeydokey]

Over the years I have accumulated a number of planes both wood and metal varying shapes sizes condition and purposes
I now have time to potter about/look at them and sort out those I don't need or would be better placed in the hands of an-other for use, preservation or whatever.
Here is a few quick photos of a James Panton plane (1880's?) and wonder if someone would enlighten me on its use and anything helpful. Let me know if better photos would be helpful - is it a Plough Plane or a Sash Filister? (whatever they are)
There are various stamped marks of owners (a few not in the photos) and I think of the retailer Barron and Duncan of Aberdeen.
thank you

 

[D_W]

Looks like a sash fillister plane if I'm visualizing things properly (it cuts a rabbet on the board opposite the fence rather than on the same side as the fence).

If you think about what you'd need to do to cut window sash, you'd generally want the rabbet on the other side the same distance from the front edge so that the sash didn't stick out varying amounts and look sloppy.

 

[D_W]

(separately, it doesn't need that much to be a good working plane, but sash fillister planes are out there in large numbers (I have a really crisp one and have never made sash. I would guess that conservators and one off workers would use a plane like that more quickly than would someone making a lot of anything. In eastern PA here, one of the US posters mentioned that he will get sash work - he's a hand tool only worker - if the job is a window or two, but if it is bigger, then the tool setup costs are offset by speed and then those jobs will go to people who make sash with power tools in a larger shop).

So, don't do anything drastic to it, but if you want to read up somewhere on repairing and regluing boxing, you can certainly do that.

I'd save any fence repair (Which wouldn't be that difficult ,but it would be fresh and look fresh) for the case where you actually decide to use it.

 

[Orraloon]

As DW said its a sash fillister. Used for cutting rebates on sash windows. For general woodwork (not windows) a moving fillister is easier to use. That one may be quite sought after as its got a handle and its from a little known maker. Looks in fairly good condition and all the parts are there. The boxing looks like it will have to be reglued in place before it can be used however.
Regards
John

 

[okeydokey]

Thank you both, isn't it great to get answers from far away other parts of the world

 

[Orraloon]

I did a bit of a google and James Panton is listed as a plane maker in Bridge St Aberdeen.
(538) - Towns > Aberdeen > 1858-1912 - Post Office Aberdeen directory > 1898-1899 - Scottish Directories - National Library of Scotland
I also saw that his planes get good prices.
Unusual Handled Sash Scribe Molding Plane by James Panton, Aberdeen, Scotland , Old Tools -Buy Online | OldTools.com
Reason I took an interest is my grandfather and great grandfather were joiners in Aberdeenshire and perhaps had some of his planes. They did make quite a few sash windows. They made coffins too and anything else made of wood that was required.
Do you intend getting it working again?
Regards
John

 

[okeydokey]

Thank you John I failed to find this info, unusual for me as I'm pretty good at online searching I think I just did my post and not researched properly - getting lazy!
I have now googled around and found a couple of his planes for sale or sold most look fairly basic and not as "complex" as this one which feels nice to hold and would gently clean to a nice item and yes his planes seem to get good prices.
Yes it does seem likely some of your family used his planes as in those times you would buy local and made local , what were there initials and I can look and see if there is a name stamp that matches.
Realistically its unlikely I will get around to making it 100% and working - perhaps it will go back in a box (which is a shame now knowing something about it) or even ebay to hopefully get it to someone who will use it.
regards
Paul

 

[Orraloon]

It would not be hard to get that back working. The boxwood strip needs to come out and be reglued. Good news is that its hide glue so water and gentle heat will dissolve it. After its back in with hide glue again then flatten and square the sole, sharpen the blade and its good to go. Like you said a gentle clean is all it needs. Radical cleaning making it look like new will slash its value. The chip off the fence should not stop it working. Likely got dropped on a concrete floor. I was going to put up a clip of a guy doing a restoration until I saw the muppet bring out the paint stripper and I stopped watching. There is plenty of good info on this forum should you want help if you want to have a go. Who knows may make a wooden plane convert of you.
Regards
John

 

[dickm]

Interesting. I have an almost identical plane, picked up in Fraserburgh (for the geographically challenged, that's on the point of Scotland's "cold shoulder", 40 miles north of Aberdeen). But mine is clearly stamped Mathiesons of Glasgow, and while it's cleaner than the OP's, needed quite a few bits re-making. Given it's so similar to the OPs, did James Panton copy Mathieson's model, and if so, would they have had to pay any sort of royalties? Or vice versa?

 

[okeydokey]

Thank you dickm
Thats a different slant on the topic, I suspect that Panton made his own design as this extract that I have copied from Wikipedia.org relating to Mathieson appears to show he was fiercely protective of his trademark so would probably be equally protective of his designs.
Looking again at how "dirty" mine is you can see where the owners have held the plane in use and kept those parts cleaner through wear spose its Patina

Trade-mark[edit]
In September 1868 Thomas Mathieson put a notice in the Sheffield & Rotherham Independent and the Sheffield Daily Telegraph stating that his firm had used the trade-mark of a crescent and star "for some time" and that "using or imitating the Mark would be proceeded against for infringement".[11] The firm had acquired its interest in the crescent-and-star mark from the heirs of Charles Pickslay, the Sheffield cutler who had registered it with the Cutlers' Company in 1833 and had died in 1852.[12] The year 1868 seems also to be the one in which the name Saracen Tool Works was first adopted; not only does it figure at the foot of the notice in the Sheffield press, it also makes its first appearance in the firm's entry in the Post-Office Glasgow Annual Directory in the 1868/9 edition.

 

[johnnyb]

did Mathieson copy pantos design(or did Panton sub to Matheson ala a" little meister" seems more likely the big firm would abuse the little man especially if his plane have some local reputation.

 

[Orraloon]

I guess we will never know who copied who but that is the general look of a handled sash fillister of the era. British wooden planes all have a similar look and you need to see a makers stamp to identify them. Well I do anyway. There may be a few who can spot the maker just by looking at a planes shape so anyone up for a wee test.
Regards
John