Is a grinder worth it?

[HeathRobinson]

Hi all,

I'm presently using an ice bear 800 / 6000 waterstone set for all my sharpening including grinding primary bevels. I don't have any kind of grinder. When a primary bevel needs attention it takes a lot of patience and time on the 800 grit stone to restore. I was hoping someone could quantify the time and effort saved through using a grinder of some sort to establish the primary bevel on an edge. I'm quite happy, and prefer, to finish sharpening by hand once the primary is established.

If you believe a grinder would be right for me, are there any that you would recommend? My preference is for something fairly quiet running and which does not generate sparks because I have some ridiculous working conditions seeing as I do all my woodwork inside a carpeted house. Wet grinders only then I think. I've noticed a number on sale at the moment from the Tormek T3 at Axminster to a Scheppach at Yandles.

Thanks,
Simon

 

[woodbloke]

Simon, as you know, I use a Tormek and have done for around 10 years now. I can't really fault it and it does all my primary grinding without an issue...there are other clones available now that I can't comment on. There are also plenty of jigs available for different applications. Speak nicely to Miss Robinson :wink: ... - Rob

 

[GazPal]

Wet grinding is the way to go if a suitable grinder is within your budget and beats the heck out of the elbow grease and wasted sharpening stone when establishing primary bevels.

Your sharpening stones will last one heck of a lot longer.

I'm not in a position to recommend something from what's currently available, because my grinder is as old as the hills, but if you weigh up the cost against practical useage you should be able to find something that doesn't cost a mint. :wink:

 

[Jacob]

You can manage perfectly well without a power grinder unless you want to do some serious metal removal - damaged edges etc. Even then you can do it by hand if you have to.

 

[GazPal]

You can manage perfectly well without a power grinder unless you want to do some serious metal removal - damaged edges etc. Even then you can do it by hand if you have to.

I agree 100%, but given the choice, a power grinder can save a lot of heartache in the long run. It's just a case of weighing the time it goes unused against the amount of use it is liable to see when justifying cost against utility.

Grinding back to good steel after accidentally clipping a nail/mineral deposit can be a headache to grind back on a sharpening stone. Even if the damage is fairly superficial, it's all wear on the sharpening stones being used. Have it happen two or three times in the same week and you'll be praying for the miraculous appearance of a grinder. :shock:

-----------

Are you able to justify paying £200+ for a sharpening system or would a sub-£150 or sub £100 unit serve the purpose you intend it for? There are wet grinders out there for less than £100, but the final decision has to be yours.

 

[HeathRobinson]

Thanks, food for thought, but I suspect I'll end up getting a grinder at
some point because, for me anyway, sharpening sucks the enjoyment out of woodworking. Even in the full on "galoot" era of woodworking the books of the time clearly show they had access to grinders, obviously hand or foot powered but a grinder none the less.

Simon

 

[Pvt_Ryan]

You could get the ice bear 250 grit stone, that would speed up removal. I've been using the ice bear 1000/6000 combi-stone and it takes a short age to gind down using the 1000 grit so the 250 is next on my list before the 10000 .

I got a grinder for £15 in B&Q, it does ok as long as you don't use the tool rests.

 

[HeathRobinson]

Pvt_Ryan,

I take it the grinder from b&q is a dry grinder? Never seen a wet one there.

Simon

 

[Pvt_Ryan]

Yes it is, but as long as your are careful it's fine. I'd strongly recommend practicing on scrap metal so you don't wreck your good stuff.

(I missed the sparks/wet comment.)

 

[woodbloke]

Pvt_Ryan,

I take it the grinder from b&q is a dry grinder? Never seen a wet one there.

Simon

I used to use a dry ginder yonks ago and to be fair, it does work but is a bit of a fraught excercise...it's very, very easy to loose the temper when you get close to the finishing point.
That said, one of they new fangled blue gindstones wot Philly uses might be a way forward. I've not used one, but Philly recommends them and I know they're available from Classic Hand Tools - Rob

 

[studders]

Workshop Heaven 3M 100 micron film makes short work of primary bevels. I use it when it's too late to be using Machines for grinding.

 

[GazPal]

Two found so far, but I can't comment on motor noise levels or how effective they are as tools;

http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/produ ... ing-wheels

http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/produ ... ing-wheels

You still get a few sparks with wet grinding, but a lot depends on how much pressure you apply.

 

[woodbloke]

Workshop Heaven 3M 100 micron film makes short work of primary bevels. I use it when it's too late to be using Machines for grinding.

I agree and use the stuff on my Jap chisels, but I don't think I'd want to re-grind the primary on a 50mm+ wide plane blade or even worse, a nice thick woody blade :shock: ...you'd be there 'til Christmas 11 - Rob

 

[studders]

don't think I'd want to re-grind the primary on a 50mm+ wide plane blade - Rob

I did my, just acquired, Record 4 1/2 blade on it the other night. Didn't take that long to put it right, and it had been 'orribbly mutilated by some previous owner (Mr Magoo judging by the state of it). Not the hardest blade in the world I know.

 

[jimi43]

Without doubt the Tormek is the way to go but I can't afford/justify one so my journey has been through oilstone, papers, dry high speed cheaper grinders and then to the little Creusen.

Had I not found this one in tatty condition at the bootfair I would not have bought a fat white wheel (Axminster) for her and had it not been on sale at the time...probably not have got that. (some here will remember these before and after shots)....

The fine white wheel and the width of it make for much greater control when grinding the primary bevel and I don't get overheating unless I am really impatient.

Onto the 3M film for honing and you have the magic (and cheap) combination.

I must say I would not bother with a cheaper grinder and stone...they are streets away from the Creusen quality. However....a new or good condition Creusen will set you back almost as much as a Tormek if you go that route. You might find bargains on FleaBay though....

Fleabay cheaper Tormek

Jim

 

[HeathRobinson]

When I signed off this forum earlier this morning I thought that was the end of the story on grinders but it now seems a whole new world has opened up in my absence. Thank you to all who have put forward their thoughts and suggestions.

Rob, looking over at the Norton blue grindstones at Classic Hand Tools, something that caught my eye is the mention of A2 steel. Is this really that much of a factor? I can't even remember what steel is used in my veritas planes but suspect A2 and then my chisels are two cherries, so I also have whatever they use.

Studders, thanks for the alternative suggestion of the 3M film, but can't see myself taking it up for use on primary bevels any time soon. I used to use the scary sharp method on my blades using the standard stuff anyone can find at a hardware store and it was fine for final sharpening but just as with the water stones I got bored doing the primary bevel on them.

GazPal, it's interesting you mention that you get a few sparks using wet grinding. I guess "few" is still better than lots of sparks when working in a carpeted area and it's good to know I won't be destroying my tool's temper too easily if they are water cooled while I'm poking the stone with them. Thanks also for pointing out the two clarke grinders. Good prices there.

jimi43, the difference you made to that Creusen is like night and day. An incredible job. I hadn't checked eBay yet, so thank you for doing some of the leg work for me! In the tool reviews section of this forum someone recommends against older Tormeks because they use a plated instead of stainless steel part and his has corroded over time. Wondering if this one on eBay may be of the same ilk. I'll keep it on the watch list regardless.

Happy shavings,
Simon

 

[Paul Chapman]

Hi Simon,

For years I did all my primary and secondary bevels on diamond stones. I have a high speed dry grinder but don't use it because it's too easy to burn blades and ruin them. Then about a year ago I bought a Tormek on which I now grind all my primary bevels. What a great machine - wish I'd bought one years ago. If you go for the Tormek you won't regret it.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Pvt_Ryan]

well I've just won this bad boy..
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... SA:GB:1123

It's quiet & sparkless I'd have told you about it earlier but I didn't want any competition.

 

[HeathRobinson]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Pvt_Ryan - certainly a well used stone on that hand grinder you just won! That stone must be all of 5cm in diameter. I actually had my mind set on a hand grinder like that some time back when the galoot juices were in full flow so I know that they can be difficult to find, though I did see one a little larger than yours for sale at the Westonbirt expo. Well done on the eBay win. Let us know how it shapes up.

Ah Paul, like Rob, Miss Robinson has not yet learned that I should not be left on a forum alone with you two. It's true, I know that there are even higher ranking tool pushers on this forum but I seem to have evaded them thus far or, rather, my wallet feints at the very sight of them. Oops, probably land up dizzy, with an empty wallet, and a boot load of tools for saying that in public ... :shock: Let me make up for it by saying I freaking LOVE your suggestion that the Tormek is the right way to go :lol:

 

[LuptonM]

What about this?

http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/produ ... ing-wheels