Invasion of US Capitol building

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Guns are really much use for security in domestic situations.

Nobody really needs a gun, in 2019 15,000 deaths 30,000 injured....on balance elimating guns wouldn't lead to many deaths from animals or two legged predators.


The reality in America is that gun ownership is a hobby, people go to gun conventions.

Nobody needs high powered guns.


None of those are high powered weapons capable of killing people, I think you understand there's no equivalence.

I don't think you have a concept of what some of the rural ranch or mountain areas are like in the US and canada. You live in a country where the most dangerous animal is a cow and rural areas are similar to our suburbs.

But it doesn't matter what your wants are, it's an amendment here. If you want to overturn it, you issue another amendment.

If it's really about numbers of deaths of undeserving victims, maybe we should amend the speed limits, as the number of lives lost to traffic accidents each year is still about 4-6 times higher than the non-gang/non-drug gun homicides.

I'll bet if we implemented a 35 mile an hour speed limit, we could halve or third that, or maybe 1/10th.

(most large game hunting in the US legally requires centerfire rifles- some can be done in other seasons with archery, but the bulk of wild prey animal population control is done by hunters with center fire rifles).
 
looks like alcohol is deadlier, also - 10,600 deaths per year in the US from drunk driving. I've got an idea. Let's make alcohol illegal. Nobody needs alcohol. Most people just have it because they like it.
 
The “right“ to own an assault rifle bears no comparison with speed limits and alcohol.

oh boy. "assault" rifle. The federal government here is allowed to put reasonable limits on arms and they have from time to time (obviously, we can't own destructive devices and anyone wanting automatic or modified things needs to have a class III license, which is something the average person wouldn't do as it subjects you to ATF investigations unannounced any time (day or night).

This discussion goes from "assault" to "high power" to whatever boogeyman everyone wants to come up with. What's the difference between a browning BLR and an AR-10? The former (and the latter) is an allowable hunting rifle in a lot of states. In mine, the action has to be manually operated, so not here, though ownership is fine - they're just not considered sporting for hunting.

I can't think of a single thing that's productive about alcohol, and the number of screwed up people walking around from it (and the number of deaths of innocents) is far greater in the wake of it than "assault rifles" in the US. But I'm certainly not going to advocate banning it.

Riddle me this - what benefit does alcohol provide that can't be gotten elsewhere without the same consequences? How many lives would be lost if it wasn't legal to consume and was completely unavailable?
 
(interestingly, I know nobody who has been shot, let alone shot and killed, but I have two relatives - one near and one distant - dead due to alcohol).
 
Clearly alcohol can be and is abused. Some of that abuse sadly ends in death. The last time you folk banned it didn't end so well, (unless you were from the tougher end of Italian stock 😉).

The comparison with cars is frankly ridiculous, (unless we discuss the carbon effects, but please, let's not go there just yet!).
Cars are not actually designed to be propelled at a thing, living or inanimate.
If the lives lost to traffic incidents is 4-6 times higher than shooting, the stat also needs the number of miles driven or journeys made to be even considered in the same discussion.

And yes, reduce the speed limit and less people will die. Categorically correct.

Always interesting to note the gun death comparison between the US and other normal western democratic countries.

But let's not fall out over it, gents. We don't have the NRA and are generally pleased about that. You do and I guess that works for you.

Let's stay friends, everyone, seriously.
 
We're allowed hunting rifles here for sport and pest control. The difference is this...

" Gun ownership is a privilege, not a right. Firearms control in the UK is among the toughest in the world, and as a result firearms offences continue to make up a small proportion (less than 0.2%) of recorded crime "

Handguns? Banned. Semi-automatic weapons? Permissible in some circumstances. Sniper rifles? Yup. Shotguns? Yes, if they hold 3 cartridges maximum.

Do people feel the need to walk round Tesco with half an armoury when buying soup and toothpaste? No. You'd have SCO19 breathing down your neck bloody fast trying that.
 
I am 67. I was told by an acquaintance probably twelve, maybe fifteen years older than me that when he was young it was easier to get a licence for a rifle then a shotgun as rifles were deemed not much use for armed robberies etc. I don't know.
I grew up from the age of eight carrying a knife as routine - nearly everyone I knew did. I remember my mother asking me for my knife in the middle of a wedding reception (she had a loose thread on a button) - she presumed I had a knife. I always carried a knife (and still do - a rather nice illegal Sandvik Browning). She would have consider it odd if I was out without a knife. I never knew anyone ever to get stabbed.
When I was ten or twelve years old several of the kids in the village had their own shotguns and used them un accommpanied - no one ever got shot. Some of them drove tractors etc. - no one got run over either. Another time, another place.:cry:
 
We're allowed hunting rifles here for sport and pest control. The difference is this...

" Gun ownership is a privilege, not a right. Firearms control in the UK is among the toughest in the world, and as a result firearms offences continue to make up a small proportion (less than 0.2%) of recorded crime "

Handguns? Banned. Semi-automatic weapons? Permissible in some circumstances. Sniper rifles? Yup. Shotguns? Yes, if they hold 3 cartridges maximum.

Do people feel the need to walk round Tesco with half an armoury when buying soup and toothpaste? No. You'd have SCO19 breathing down your neck bloody fast trying that.

I've been alive 44 years. I have seen someone open carrying in a store once in 44 years. For the most part, people have guns here and the guns stay in their house, and in the last three decades, what used to be in unlocked cabinets and such is now in locked storage. When I had guns, they were all locked. I got them out to go to the range and brought them back and cleaned them, and then back they went.

If you are to carry somewhere here open and you go in a store and they ask you to leave, it's criminal trespass if you don't. Many of the stores have signs that say no weapons are allowed (that's not limited to firearms, but anything). When I owned guns, i maintained a carry permit. I can count on zero thumbs the number of times I carried anything, but it was advised to us with hunter's safety that it'd be wise to get a carry permit as going to and from the range in my state is legal for anyone. Stopping anywhere (For anything, even gas) is not legal with a handgun unless you have a carry permit. obviously, I no longer have a carry permit, either (they cost the princely sum of $4.50 a year here, which was more or less to maintain a database of the permit holders and to do a background check at renewal).

The fascination with this topic outside of the US is, quite frankly, dumb. It's based on skewed perception or just prissyness. The skewed perception part of it is if someone is concerned about the availability of firearms and they believe that their concern is solely safety based. There are ladies in my neighborhood (and probably guys, ladies tend to be more vocal) who believe that gun ownership is the number one threat to their safety, but they travel overseas, drive all over the place and drink. I don't really have an objection to people drinking, but the reality is if a cohort drinks, some will have an affinity for alcohol and eventually die.

A far bigger thing on my radar is having my kids learn to make good decisions from the start. Alcohol, opioids, benzodiazepenes. All of us here know someone who has had a run in (neighbor's daughter died from an overdose - once again, something that I can identify a person with, but not scary on the news like the gun stories). Overdose deaths from drugs here last year in combination with non-accident related alcohol deaths (so not even including the 10k drunk driving deaths) total over 100k per year. Those two alone are at least 16 or 17 times greater than the gun death exposure. You can just go down this list forever, but nobody is scared of it until after it happens. Stupidity.
 
Wow DW does himself no favours at all does he - equating cars to Guns oh boy!!
And then comes out with something as pathetic as I don’t know anyone who has been shot or shot anyone, Im sure all those parents of children murdered at School will have the same thought process!!

The highest murder rate with guns in the western society and he wonders why there is a fascination why any country would not want to address this issue.
 
The elephant in the room is possibly that it wouldn't make the slightest differnce to the murder/death rates now if guns were banned - there are so many already in circulation. There aren't too many deaths from legally held guns here.
 
He's right in a way, though. The US has a pretty bad road traffic death figure too. They should fix their driving tests, and maybe consider some sort of annual roadworthiness check. I've seen things driven on US roads that would have you pulled over in seconds in the UK.
 
(interestingly, I know nobody who has been shot, let alone shot and killed, but I have two relatives - one near and one distant - dead due to alcohol).

I knew some who have been shot. Sometimes in the back of the head, sometimes in the knees. The former didn’t survive, dumped on waste ground or by the side of the road.
Guns designed to kill are evil and totally unnecessary.
I will never ever understand the mentality of those that are pro weapon, never.
 
You live in a country where the most dangerous animal is a cow and rural areas are similar to our suburbs.
Sorry but I couldn't help laughing at this sentence. :LOL: It brought back memories of continually having to explain where in the UK I came from; at that time it was Wales and few Americans had heard of it. :)
By the way I'd rather a cow to a bull :D
 
It's total bollocks, anyway. In the US, as in the UK probably, farm animals, wasps etc. are responsible for more deaths than cougars or bears. It's simply another justification for owning guns.
 
Sorry but I couldn't help laughing at this sentence. :LOL: It brought back memories of continually having to explain where in the UK I came from; at that time it was Wales and few Americans had heard of it. :)
By the way I'd rather a cow to a bull :D

I had an American tell me he had Welsh ancestors, so I asked where in Wales they were from. He didn't know. Cutting a long story short he didn't know where Wales was either.
 
Can a crazy person enter a school building and spray pupils with opioids from a device designed for such a purpose?
But you have another good point, D_W. The wanton prescription of drugs for profit needs to be addressed also.
 
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