Infill casting MkII

[HarryJ]

Nolegs,
Thanks for the advice about Bakers Fluid, looks like I'll be using Templars Flux instead!
As for the Tinmans, I found it on Amazon (as you say, what a surprise that was!) but I wasn't sure as to the price I should be looking at to be honest...?!
Having just quickly searched Telux flux, I see Amazon have that as well so looks like I'll probably be making a purchase from them soon anyway.


Not teaching to suck eggs at all, I was only going to abrade and, if I was feeling lively, degrease -I had no idea there was material specific mediums either.
I have a brass wire brush, so I guess that is a good start! (hammer)

I'll be sure to keep you and anyone else watching updated as I too love watching hand made tools developing nearly as much as I like making them! but yes, the bar is veerryyy high :shock: , perhaps out of my reach...

Mike,
Thanks for the idea of a drum sander on a pillar drill with a fence, but as you say; little by little is key as from my limited knowledge, pillar drills shouldn't be put under sideways force as the taper can simply fall out!! (although I did do a bit before with a drum sander but have recently become more concious of it after realising what I was doing... )

New camera eh?! I rely on my phone and although it is very well speced, it is still a phone so can be a little limiting. My photography skills and workshop lighting probably don't help either to be fair...
If you could post some pictures, that would be good though!



I'm still a little undecided as to whether I should add the steel sole, as I am unsure about internal stresses which the heat may generate and also unsure about how I am going to actually do it still.

Thanks,
Harry

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Maybe a bit late in the day, but instead of soldering, how about attaching a steel sole by using an engineering adhesive? Almost any decent super-glue should serve well over that area of contact; the key to success being absolute chemical cleanliness of both mating surfaces, and maybe a slight roughness to give an effective joint gap of a couple of thous. It would also be a much easier process, since it needs no applied heat.

I think the traditional reason for sweating steel to bronze was that before the advent of decent engineering adhesives, solder was the most reliable method; slight differential expansion of the two metals was a risk that had to be taken, though I've never heard of any detrimental effects of a sweated-on sole.

 

[HarryJ]

Hi Cheshirechappie,
To be fair, that is a very good point you have raised and the only thing stopping me from doing it is my stubborn attitude to doing things the right/time proved way because as you say it is a far easier process!

I haven't heard of any after effects of a sweated on sole either, however I have heard that this process should be reserved for the smaller planes,
-perhaps for the expansion differences?

Cheers,
Harry

 

[Bedrock]

Harry

Sorry for the delay. Am having a problem in resizing the photos but will post, hopefully tomorrow. Take your point re taper as did exactly that over the weekend when trying to run a 1/2" reamer through some brass.
You made me think, and as it was at least 10 years ago, I may have used a power drill in an old Bosch drill stand. Accurate enough for the purpose and no risk of chuck dropping off,

Incidentally, the steel sole is riveted to the bronze casting as well as sweated.

Mike

 

[Mr_P]

This might be of use, unless I'm too late.

http://www.petermcbride.com/plane_restore/

 

[HarryJ]

Hi Bedrock
Thanks for the info about the sole being riveted on as well as being soldered, and also about the drill method you mention -I have a drill stand for a power drill so maybe that I'll try it -even if it is to remove only the worst lumps.

Mr P
You're not too late as, amongst other things, I have been trying to find a decent source for some suitable steel to use for the sole. I think I have found some now it's just a little bit of a waiting game until I get a reply to the email I sent because I only want a small section!
-I tried saw plate from a cheap old handsaw, but I couldn't get it to tin properly -it only wanted to do so in certain places so I scrapped that plan! -and also the hacksaw blade...
Thanks very much for the link though, I have been trying (somewhat unsuccessfully) to find examples of other people that have soldered a steel sole onto a plane so the link is much appreciated as well as being useful!


There has been a little progress outside of the metal working department, but unfortunately I didn't actually take any pictures as it is only gluing up some small ebony sections to try and squeeze the handle and bun from them -I'll take some pictures when it is in a recognisable state though.
Hopefully, I can seal the join line well enough so that it cant be seen when all joined together.

Thanks for your continued input,
Harry

 

[HarryJ]

Hi

I have had some more time in my workshop just before and after the Christmas festivities and, I think, made some noticeable progress:

I have recently come across some ebony which I thought would look nice against the casting, the only downside was that the ebony was all 'offcuts' so the pieces were all too small on their own so I just glued some together in order to get a big enough piece for the handle, the sides around the handle and also the front bun. Hopefully the glue joint will be strong enough to withstand using the plane once finished!

Once the pieces were all glued together in a big enough piece for the rear handle, I planed and marked the datum surface and face and thicknesed it from here -firstly chamfering the edges to the gauged lines so I had a visible target to aim for when planing -something I think I picked up from here somewhere?!
I did get a little tear-out when planing, but most of it was sorted by a quick sharpen

As I didn't want to waste all of the material which needs to be removed to get the handle to the correct thickness, I decided to make the rear in three parts -the handle and the two pieces either side of it.
I cut the sides out using my bandsaw -however as the light by my saw is fairly poor, I don't have any pictures of this, but instead of the piece after cutting out.

These pieces needed recessing then on order for them to finish overstuffed when assembled so I set about doing this, firstly with my pillar drill. As I hadn't finished thicknessing the handle piece at this time (the glue was still drying) I didn't want to guess how much needed to be taken out and get it too thin so I left it as it is for now straight from the drill!

After I had done this, I started recessing the piece which will be the front bun, this time not using my pillar drill but using my shoulder plane and chisel.

The test fits went quite well, tapping the wood in and then taking it back out and cutting away the bits which were causing it to bind on the sides of the casting, being conscious of the fact that I didn't want it too slack so as to fall out...
This went a bit to well... in that I have now got the piece stuck in the front of the plane and cant get it to budge.

I would much prefer to simply leave the front bun as it is, stuck, I haven't really finished in the metal work department -or for that matter the shaping of the bun isn't finished either, although this can be done in situ if necessary I guess...
I have moved onto the wood work whilst parts I needed for the sole soldering were in the post, but I don't think I can really risk heating the sole, for soldering, with the infill stuck in...!?

Advice is, as always, welcome!

Thanks again,
Harry

 

[jimi43]

Huge amount of deja vu going on with this thread Harry...takes me back to the boxwood infill... :mrgreen:

Don't try to prise the infill out...sure way of cracking or chipping things.

Clamp the bun upside down very tightly in the vise (wood only!)...then grasp the steel and gently wiggle and tap with a wooden mallet upwards...take your time..it will come out trust me.

Once out...finish the steel to the final last minute stage...as far as you want to go before inilling again.

Go back now and concentrate on getting the handle right...you know that the bun will tap fit...though I think that you could relieve that a tad too as it doesn't need to be that tight down inside..it's being screwed in place anyway.

The handle will give you more than enough problems for now...DAMHIKT! :mrgreen:

I think that's enough to be going on with...but progress is definitely in the positive direction.

Cheers mate

Jimi

 

[HarryJ]

Thanks for the advice Jimi, I got the front bun out the way in which you suggested in the end, but only after I had left in inside for a day, as no matter how tight I clamped the front bun into my vice, it slipped when I wiggled the plane.

I also relieved the front handle a smidgen, as suggested, so it didn't happen again when I was test fitting for the shape to match up properly!

I was going to finish the metal as you suggest also, but didn't have any finishing papers for metal use, instead I started refining the shape of the side pieces and start making the rear handle blank into the rear handle!


I drilled through with a forstner bit firstly to give a very close approximation of the curve I had drawn onto the wood.

Then, I cut the waste out of the middle using my jewellers/coping saw

After having cut the main waste out, I set to shaping the handle... but only after having marked it out

I marked it out like this to firstly allow me to see how much of the initial corner I was going to remove (the lines closest to the outsides). Then, the inside lines were used to show where a continuous curve needed to be made to so that the handle had as much of the flat sides removed as possible.
Part way through it looked like this:

At some point before I had marked out and shaped the rear handle, I must have shaped the side pieces to be sure that they weren't going to interfere with the handle at all.

I am still not sure if I will leave the side pieces square, but I have for now and I will test them out before I make them rounded...

After I had done this, I begun to sand through the grits, but only on the faces which would be hard to get to when the infill is installed, finishing with MicroMesh I bought from Craft Supplies before it became part of Turners Retreat -it lasts quite a long time, but I have now resigned it to dark woods only and am in need of some new for the lighter woods...

Then I put some true oil onto the finished faces to give a bit of protection.

Unfortunately, the join lines can easily be seen -not because the finish soaks in more I don't think, but because the ebony has turned out to be more differing than I thought it was when it was in rough cut pieces -not just jet black!

Hopefully I'll be able to get some more done during the week -including sanding some of the handle a bit more as by then, I hope, some more 120 grit sandpaper would have come through in the post becaues I ran out part way through the rear handle...

Cheers,
Harry

 

[jimi43]

Coming along nicely Harry....and I'm please that you managed to get the bun out...it's a nightmare when that happens...it must have shrunk a bit overnight. If it's going to dry that much...I suggest leaving the final bun rest for a while before you install and do the top rounding.....you should be able to fit it with no glue (preferred for the future) and just screwed.

Yes..MicroMesh will stain..and I do as you do...leave that set for "dark woods and metals" and get a new set exclusively used for white woods (I put mine in an envelope marked "white wood only").

You can even wash it in the washing machine when it gets too clogged up. It comes out like new but is weaker after that...but it gets far more time out of it before you have to throw it out.

Nice job so far with the handle....and lovely to see it hand carved with the rasp...instead of the dreaded router.

Looking forward to seeing the next installment.

Cheers mate

Jimi

 

[HarryJ]

Thanks Jimi,

I didn't think that the wood I was using was going to shrink much, it has been stored for the last 20 odd years (although not by me!) so hopefully, nothing disastrous will happen to it :shock:

I'll have to try washing the MicroMesh in the washing machine, a couple of my pieces are actually quite clogged up and could do with a clean!

Ahh, the router... I was going to say that I don't actually own a router, (which to be fair, I'm not too sad about -dreaded it truly is!) but I do, it's in pieces though :lol:

I too am looking forward to the next instalment, although my slow progress has seemingly put off anyone else watching! :mrgreen:

Thanks anyway!
Harry

 

[HarryJ]

The progress has indeed been slow since last time...but this time it has been due to the finish seeming to never soak into the wood :?

I have been using TrueOil, as I have done on other items I have either re finished or made, but this time it won't dry properly?
I first thought that it was perhaps too cold for it, so I cut it right back to bare wood again, gently warmed the wood indoors for a day or so to give it a reasonable 'internal' temperature, if you see what I mean, so the finish was going on to warm wood, and tried it again.

This didn't work...
So after a few more days of letting it dry out the most it was going to do (it still was tacky to the touch), I re cut the finish right back again, until I was at bare wood, sanded right through and left it whilst I pondered what was going on.

I thought that it might be the wood is oily itself, but since I have got this finish on some of the same wood (the same piece in fact which I cut off) I don't think it is that?
I then thought that perhaps the TrueOil is getting old, so tried it on a different piece of wood, which has seemed to dry out okay?

I think what I will try is getting some new finish as perhaps the combination of being a little older and going onto naturally oily wood is effecting it somehow?
Any better suggestions anyone?

Thanks,
Harry

 

[jimi43]

The progress has indeed been slow since last time...but this time it has been due to the finish seeming to never soak into the wood :?

I have been using TrueOil, as I have done on other items I have either re finished or made, but this time it won't dry properly?
I first thought that it was perhaps too cold for it, so I cut it right back to bare wood again, gently warmed the wood indoors for a day or so to give it a reasonable 'internal' temperature, if you see what I mean, so the finish was going on to warm wood, and tried it again.

This didn't work...
So after a few more days of letting it dry out the most it was going to do (it still was tacky to the touch), I re cut the finish right back again, until I was at bare wood, sanded right through and left it whilst I pondered what was going on.

I thought that it might be the wood is oily itself, but since I have got this finish on some of the same wood (the same piece in fact which I cut off) I don't think it is that?
I then thought that perhaps the TrueOil is getting old, so tried it on a different piece of wood, which has seemed to dry out okay?

I think what I will try is getting some new finish as perhaps the combination of being a little older and going onto naturally oily wood is effecting it somehow?
Any better suggestions anyone?

Thanks,
Harry

If you have had the Tru-Oil for a time it may be that the drying agent has all evaporated and it get's thicker...but even then I've not had problems like that. The answer is to get another bottle I guess.

They also make a sealer now...grain filler/sealer...I will be trying that on my next project as I think it will reduce the number of coats I then have to do....

Jimi

 

[HarryJ]

Hi again,

I tried your suggestion of using a new bottle of Tru oil, Jim, and whilst I was ordering it, I got some of the sealer at the same time.

Unfortunately, it still hasn't worked, and the handle still isn't drying out properly. It's been nearly two days!
The sealer seemed to dry properly, which only adds to my confusion as to why the tru oil isn't drying...

The good news is that the sealer seems to have made a good shine much quicker, until it is touched, that is, and your finger print is left in it!!

Harry

 

[Mr_P]

Well by a process of elimination, not the tru oil, not the temperature so it must be the wood :?

Time for plan B, another varnish/ oil.

 

[jimi43]

......I didn't think that the wood I was using was going to shrink much, it has been stored for the last 20 odd years (although not by me!) so hopefully, nothing disastrous will happen to it :shock:

This part of your post at the top of this page worries me a bit...ebony should not shrink that much if it's been stored correctly and is dry.

I'm wondering if it's not that dry after all...owing to incorrect storage and therefore this is preventing drying of the Tru-Oil.

If this were to be the case...there are few finishes that would not be affected....

I can't honestly think of any other reason.

Jim

 

[HarryJ]

Mr P,
I suppose it must be the wood, although I then looked left and saw the rest of the parts which I have used the finish on...

I'm not sure if the handle and the rest of the infill were once one piece of wood though, so that is still looking most likely!

Jim,
That is a very good point though, I had forgotten that it had shrunk a little... :-k

Maybe I'll leave it inside for a while to see if I can save it, the grain has come up nicely and I don't want to have wasted all of my time.

In the mean time, I think I had better start making a lever cap! Any suggestions? :lol:

Thanks again,
Harry

 

[Mr_P]

The late, great RichardT shows you how to do a juicy lever cap here:

juicy-brass-lever-cap-t67240.html

I've bought a bar of gun metal for my chariots but at 2" wide I don't think its any good to you, sorry.

Edit:
Easier option would be to give Bristol Designs a ring, they should also have iron and cap irons to fit as well.

 

[rxh]

Yes, that thread of Richard T's is an excellent guide. However, I would recommend drilling and tapping the cap before shaping it.

 

[jimi43]

There is also a step by step section on lever cap making on my Richard Tomes Memorial Infill article...(pages 4/5/6/7 of this summary).

CLICK

Definitely drill and tap the hole first..then shape.

Jimi